Lowering intake temps.. ?

[lamrith]

Now if there is a kit (that i have not looked for) that would allow me to share the AMPS for the AirCon and power a set of fans on the condenser .. without risk to the wiring .. maybe. 

I am not sure what you mean by AMPS, do you mean literal amperage?  Pulling off an existing circuit is great, but I think a dedicated harness/switch would be best for what we are talking about.  Maybe splice it into an AccysOn 12v+/grnd line someplace.  I do not know of any kit for extra fan at all at this point.  Perfect world I would think a M-F connector matching some existing connector in the vehicle so it is plug and play, no cut, splice etc to harness.

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

However by then you are already heat soaked from top to bottom, plus the turbos are generating max heat as well.  That is a tough row to hoe for the IC, starting hot, and adding heat..  I think (usually dangerous) if we can devise a way to keep the setup from reaching those higher temps in the 1st place when idling, staging etc, then we are going to see a net benefit or overall cooler temps at all times.  Instead of starting the pass @130*AIT2, start it at 100-110*...  Then it can come down as you start rolling and climb thru the pass.  Your #1 run you started @ 129.2*, then there was a 9* temp drop until 53mph, then it climbed out again to finish @ 134.6 so a 14.4* climb from min temp.  It comes down to managing BTU output of the turbos vs the IC's max temp drop.  If we can get a fan setup that gives it airflow similar to say 15-20mph while the car is sitting still, we are a huge step forward in the game.  So lets look at starting at 110*, then drop to 101* and then climb out the 14.4* you are at 115.4* finishing the run, which is a lower than the min temp of the 1st run you did...  You might lose timing due to heat late in the pass, but have plenty to play with early on to get that big boat moving. 

Since this is a manifold issue,  I assume this is good old heat soak from the block to the material of the manifold itself.   Were we NA longitudinal blocks we'd be icing between runs to compensate.  But since we have all the crap on top we cant ice (and i would not)..

Mad scientist here, and this is well beyond my ability to create or develop, but maybe someone with the resources will pickup the idea..?  What about leveraging the AC system, not for electrical power but for the direct cooling?  I am thinking a manifold built with a jacket in it and then the AC lines were routed thru that jacket?  As mentioned the metal in the intake itself gets heat soaked and adds heat, so correct that and you make a huge advance in lowering temps.  It would almost act like an IC itself.  So sitting in staging lines you actually run the AC system, chilling the intake itself.  Then as you pull in for your run you shut it down just like normally would check and do.  This would likely be an expensive upgrade item doing it that way, but once done there is no filling or topping off needed like Meth, it just works...

[SHOdded]

This is why it is recommended  to remove the weatherstrip at the firewall to provide the heat an escape route.  Also popping the hood once you are done with the run and are cruising back to staging.  You can choose to wire the fans for manual control as well.  There is a howto on it.

[lamrith]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

[TopherSho]

A liquid cooled manifold would be good,  along with better gaskets that are thermal barriers.  My old g35 was prone to heat soak so there was thermal insulators you placed in between the block and the intake.  dropped 10f under WoT.

[TopherSho]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

I'ts a big heat sandwich   it is in between the AC coils and radiator.   this explains a bit.   

[lamrith]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

I'ts a big heat sandwich   it is in between the AC coils and radiator.   this explains a bit.

Yeah it would be great to have it out front of the other two.  Could have been designed in the middle to actually use the heat in cold climates?

[glock-coma]

I believe the new hellcat utilizes the ac system to cool the intake manifold.

[TopherSho]

I believe the new hellcat utilizes the ac system to cool the intake manifold.

it indeed does.  in drag mode you can shunt max *AC refrigerant itself* to cool her down .. smart stuff.

[TopherSho]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

I'ts a big heat sandwich   it is in between the AC coils and radiator.   this explains a bit.

Yeah it would be great to have it out front of the other two.  Could have been designed in the middle to actually use the heat in cold climates?

I imagine that is exactly the case to deal with sub 40' climates with tons of moisture.

[AJP turbo]

There is a device out there already called killer chiller...its for supercharged mustangs that tap into your ac sytem for the heat exchanger of the supercharger

[TopherSho]

There is a device out there already called killer chiller...its for supercharged mustangs that tap into your ac sytem for the heat exchanger of the supercharger

OMG /car boner/ they make a 12v standalone closed loop %%%%ing system ... oh wow.  This is so tempting...

[StealBlueSho]

Meth is cheaper...

[TopherSho]

Meth is cheaper...

True!  But now you can chill your meth ?!

[lamrith]

Meth is cheaper...

Yes very true, but you need to tune specifically for the meth since it alters A/F?  You also have to sure it is always full as if you run out things can go boom.  I think with the cooling setup above it would be a install and forget about it deal, no specific tuning needed.  You can run or not run based on temps and what you have going on and not have to worry about it.  If it is a cool morning/winter day, don't turn it on, warm summer day and you want to play, turn it on (or better yet have the system on a temp switch so it could turn on/off on it's own..)

I see it sort of like old school pushrod cars.  Real easy to just throw a nitrous plate under the carb.  More expensive and time consuming is to throw intake/cam maybe heads at it.  They can net the same end result, but one is there all the time, the other you have to keep full and buy consumable based on how much you use it.

[StealBlueSho]

Meth is cheaper...

Yes very true, but you need to tune specifically for the meth since it alters A/F?  You also have to sure it is always full as if you run out things can go boom.  I think with the cooling setup above it would be a install and forget about it deal, no specific tuning needed.  You can run or not run based on temps and what you have going on and not have to worry about it.  If it is a cool morning/winter day, don't turn it on, warm summer day and you want to play, turn it on (or better yet have the system on a temp switch so it could turn on/off on it's own..)

I see it sort of like old school pushrod cars.  Real easy to just throw a nitrous plate under the carb.  More expensive and time consuming is to throw intake/cam maybe heads at it.  They can net the same end result, but one is there all the time, the other you have to keep full and buy consumable based on how much you use it.

I really think it depends on the setup really... I called and had a very in depth conversation with Snow Performance...

You can tune the car to where you want it, and then add Meth just to cool the charge down... so if you run out of meth, you just run as if the charge wasn't being cooled... and according to them, our ECU is able to adjust for a small amount of meth without needing AFR tuning...

Where you get into trouble is tuning the engine to the nth degree while spraying. Then if you run out of meth your base fuel cannot support the timing your running and then the possibility of Kaboom is real...