Hesitation in boost and high rpm

[Livernois Motorsports]

Waiting on Andy to call me back should be today honoring his 48 hour call return policy. Also left Anthony an voicemail, figured I give Ethan a break, I'm sure he hates me by now lol.

I don't hate you, I hate very few things in this world, bad piergoies and crappy fair food are about it. If I had the ability/knowledge to go in and change the scalars myself, I would.
I'm beyond the point of achieving anything and the fate lies solely in the hands of the tuning department and their choices or discretion's. I have been told before
that they would prefer to work around it in that way because they consider it cutting corners and would like to avoid that at all costs. With that said, I want to clarify that that is in no way a slight towards AJP as he was purely trying to see what he could to to correct the behavior of the vehicle with what was available. I apologize if the previous statement came across as seeming dickish, I did not intend for that to be the effect. ZSHO, I appreciate the continued diligence on your end but much like myself, Anthony is tapped out on what he has the ability to do, and the emails get rerouted to me, which in turn get listed over to tuning. Adam, I will respond to your most recent email shortly.

Thank you.

[polskifacet]

I have been told before that they would prefer to work around it in that way because they consider it cutting corners and would like to avoid that at all costs.

I appreciate your response. I also am not one to cut corners but in this case how much more time/money does Livernois and myself have to spend on this issue. My trip there was no way free for either side. I would love to fix it correctly but I have checked everything suggested and can't find any hint of anything wrong. If you guys want the car again and pledge to fix it then F it lets do it. Otherwise can we work around it at least for now because I can not use the tune so what did I buy it for?

[AJP turbo]

I think people have the wrong idea on how i got the fuel pressure stabilized

I did not cut corners or do a "work around".

I simply used "stock" throttle settings that  ford uses for throttle control for torque management.

Normally i try to make the throttle more closely follow pedal inputs to give the car more response. But that can allow for more boost spikes that in your case lowers fuel pressure that your fuel system can't seem to recover from for some unknown reason.

Polski im not sure why you were hell bent on using the lms tune when you already had a tune with fixed symptoms and probably a good deal on the used device you had but anyway...

All i had to do was use stock settings for:
Wop=wot start
Wop=wot end

Ask lms to give it a shot.

[polskifacet]

I paid them for the tune. LMS said that they would fix this issue so I plan to hold them to it. I wish to find the root cause for my own sanity and the curiosity of the community.

Your tune is legit but using it means that I have given in. That's not how I work man, I take the harder path if that's what makes me learn more. I understand that LMS has to keep the doors open but if it were my company it would kill me to not know whats causing a car with my tune to run incorrectly. Maybe im expecting too much but I am going to keep pushing, lets see what happens.

Maybe if I'm in LMS's good graces, they will invite me over there again and we can test out one of their pumps on my car?!?!

[AJP turbo]

I get it....but i think at this point because you are causing your own grief out of stubbornness...i think it puts livernois in a tough spot...they dont know whats wrong but i think its safe to say its not the tune thats the problem so its kind of out of their hands.

If i was them id just give your money back that way they arent in a position of not delivering on their word...the device doesnt cost them that much at their cost so its a drop in the bucket to let you keep it amd better publicity for them...i would just want to wash my hands of you...so if you get money back there is no foul

I feel your pain and really dont care if livernois looks good or bad but it seems they went above and beyond already but if your car is the problem to say that you are holding them to finding the solution just because you paid them seems like a tough stance..thats why id give your money back...businesses hate doing that but if one customer gets a free device out of 1000 whats the big deal and i think they woukd look better in the end for doing that

Just my take

[polskifacet]

I'm only holding them to what they said in this thread. They could give me my money back yes but I assume (and hope) they have pride in what they are doing and don't want to just wash their hands of a challenge. They can also take your advice which is probably the quickest way to lower the tension so I can use their tune with piece of mind of having full fuel pressure. If they do adjust the tune for now and still want to diagnose my car, I will honor their request. As I have offered them before, I am willing to compensate a reasonable/agreed amount if that would expedite solving the issue. There are a few options from LMS's side and this thread would be completely different if there was a game plan. They could charge me a deposit and send me a pump that i could log with etc and see what happens, I am sure they have a beta model that I could borrow.

[lamrith]

I'm only holding them to what they said in this thread. They could give me my money back yes but I assume (and hope) they have pride in what they are doing and don't want to just wash their hands of a challenge.

There comes a point however in every business transaction were either party can (AND SHOULD) come to the decision that further hassle for either party is not in either parties best interest.  At that point if a vendor is willing to credit the customer in full, that is a sign of true professionalism and top notch customer service.  No company can make every single customer happy, it is a statistical impossibility.  But how they work with those problem situations shows a companies true values.  Pride is why they have not just "patch worked" a tune together for you outside of their normal parameters.  They have certain standards they have set for every tune and are unwilling to waver on that.  Crediting a customer $ is a sign of pride in their work.

This has been a long duration of back and forth for both of you.  And expensive for both parties.  Any amount of profit LMS may have made normally on a tune is long gone.  You as the consumer also have been inconvenienced significantly, how far should they push or pull you along before they step back and says it is best for both to part ways?  To me, with the price of tunes on the market, you have both gone above and beyond to get it dialed in.  If I were in your shoes I would throw in the towel on an LMS tune and go with what has already been shown to work.

[polskifacet]

I will accept however LMS decides to proceed. I do hate being dragged along the most out of all of this.

[polskifacet]

I slept on it and have no desire to give up. If LMS is willing to lend me (maybe leading up to me buying it) a pump to see how it reacts and if the retune for it exhibits the same issue.

I don't need this solved by LMS this second, if there is a plan then I'm good and will follow up based on that plan instead of calling every day etc.

[StealBlueSho]

I slept on it and have no desire to give up. If LMS is willing to lend me (maybe leading up to me buying it) a pump to see how it reacts and if the retune for it exhibits the same issue.

I don't need this solved by LMS this second, if there is a plan then I'm good and will follow up based on that plan instead of calling every day etc.

Honestly, if your fuel pressure is as bad as your logs are showing, and your considering replacing your HPFP to verify.. I would be more than happy to send you my spare to test with... free of charge.. just ship it back...

Reason is, even if you get a bigger pump, that maybe just masking the actual issue.. if you are OK with that, then cool. If you want to try the bigger pump just to see if your pump is bad, like I said, shoot me your address and you will have one to test with. Takes 5 minutes to switch out...

I agree with AJP on this one.. you have two of the better tuners for the SHO saying there is some external issue... holding LMS to the fire not only puts them in a tough spot but makes you look bad as well... given the information already provided in this thread. Tough words to hear, but not sure what resolution you are looking for? LMS clearly cannot find it and AJP cannot figure out via tuning what exactly is going on...  I mean... short of replacing the entire fuel system who knows? Rails, injectors, regulators, pumps, lines... 

I love my SHO, however, if I was in your shoes, and wanted a tuneable car that wasn't going to cost me an arm and leg to get to a tuneable state... I might just cut bate and get something else.. maybe taking the hit on a trade in would be cheaper than replacing parts in hopes that you might stumble across a solution?

let me know about the pump...

[polskifacet]

I could buy 2 LMS pumps just in tax if I traded the car in.

LMS is up there with top shops for tuning and builds so that's why I'm pushing them, I'm sure Andy could sort this out but doesn't have the time when they have multiple $20,000+ builds in their shop as we speak. If a pump gets me what I want and maybe even a couple more horses then it's worth it to me to buy one and be done. Now however I don't know if that will solve my issue as I could buy a $1500 pump and my car have the same issue. I'm asking LMS to work with me, up to this point they have even though it takes a while, there is movement on the issue.

I have heard that LMS has gotten more bodies in management so my issue should get more attention. Guys I don't expect anything for free but I do expect working towards a solution.

I could say alot more personal things but that would take away from what this thread is about, stay tuned guys this is not finished.

[AJP turbo]

The problem i see for livernois is their product is not the cause of the problem and you are looking for them to figure it out so i think your expectations are misguided.

Just like how shops will not run your car on a dyno that is not mechanically sound, i would never run a tune on a car that has issues

If the upgraded pump restores fuel pressure you need to understand that is a mask and in no way fixed the underlying problem

I feel like you will drag livernois through the mud because you have an unrelated  issue with your car

Unfortunately for them, they may have mispoken to you in saying that they will see the problem through at a point in time when they werent aware of what the problem was

[polskifacet]

They vowed to make it good more than once in this thread. They are on the hook for making the tune work with my vehicle. Since they now make a pump, I am tempted to push it in that direction if it's an easier fix than weeks of sitting at LMS. This is what this business does, there is no reason why they shouldn't try and find the problem. If John Doe walks in with a fuel pressure issue they would fix it right?

[StealBlueSho]

If John Doe walks in with a fuel pressure issue they would fix it right?

Probably not... would be my guess.... they don't sell fuel rails, HPFP, FPDM, or LPFP for our cars....

They are a performance shop, not a general maintenance shop or general repair shop... and I have no doubt that their hourly rate is that of a performance shop... so again... probably not...

Golden rule of tuning is... make sure your car is healthy and happy before pushing a tune.

Your car happened to behave normal without an issue and the added load of a tune brought forth an underlying issue.. that's not on LMS to fix...

As someone who cares about the SHO community, I wish you the best of luck.

[AJP turbo]

I thought there was an assumption that your vehicle was not mechanically faulty

I would think if john doe walks into a performance speed shop they might fix it if the customer paid but it sounds like the more appropriate thing to do in that case would be for John doe to go to a repair or maintenance garage.

I think you dont like the idea that a tune cant fix a mechanical problem

You say you would think it would bug livernois that they cant figure out the problem...does it not bug you that unconventional measures have to be taken to mask a mechanical issue with your car?....you could honestly drive it knowing all is not well with your car but as long as you cant feel the symptoms anymore its all good?

Im just trying to give you a different perspective.

I guess this is where disclaimers come to be

Both parties here are screwed i fear...livernois committed themselves to perhaps something they should not have and you will continue to have a joyless driving experience to prove a point i guess