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Possible Causes of Power Loss

Started by WickedSHO, August 17, 2015, 10:13:27 AM

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BiGMaC

Glad to hear the front end problem is solved! Kinda glad to hear that it was not another hub.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

WickedSHO

Thanks BIGMac....

Now I just hope the power issue's I am having will not require me to take it back. Once I can pin point the issue.
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

WickedSHO

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 20, 2015, 12:42:39 PM
Do you run torque?

I doubt the e-85 is your issue but knowing fuel trims and rail pressure would be helpful.

I've ran 70+% in both cars and no dtcs or cels. Pretty sure wass had same experience.

That being said that was for science, not daily driving because it will tax the s*** 💩 out of fuel ⛽.system headroom in certain parts of the rev range.

I wouldn't cut out the E85 completely but tone it down a bit.

And I agree with Rich, less is more and my new BBG seems to like 20ish. (with a splash of meth😉 ) this also puts you in the range of plausible deniability if something were to happen since e-15 is ok on our cars. If they tested and you had 40-50, they might take issue with that.

You can run 30 all day long but you will see some Kr spikes due to fuel volume.

I'd like to see your fuel trims and rail pressure....wot2-3 and wot 3-2, which is where the fuel volume issues like to creep up.

FoMoCoSHO....I logged a run to work this morning. Did some WOT pulls from 1-2, 2-3.....
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

WickedSHO

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on August 20, 2015, 08:48:42 PM
Quote from: ecoboostsho on August 20, 2015, 05:34:19 PM
Quote from: WickedSHO on August 20, 2015, 02:01:56 PM
I honestly don't think I am monitoring short and long term fuel trims.

As for KR's.....While tuned I have seen as high as +2.0 and as low as -2.0. Nothing outside that range. I usually only get positive KR in a WOT run, but never higher than +2.0.
Are you using Torque? If so what formula are you using for knock? I would expect -4's on a regular basis with that much e-85...just wondering if you had the "old" formula which mistakingly showed half the knock you really had.

Never mind...I see you run Torque.
Nice catch, and you're right, he should be seeing more advance, especially with that much corn. Blowing on the gas pedal should get a -4, lol...

ecoboostsho and FoMoCoSHO..you are correct. My formula for Knock is incorrect.

The formula I have is signed(A)/4
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

ZSHO

I apologize just got back a couple of days ago,hows she running?any updates,thanks.  Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

14SHOCAR

WickedSHO -- Sorry it took me a bit to respond.

Did you check the vacuum line as I had described?

Did you do the plugs on you car? AKA Getting a new set and gapping them to .032? My 2014's plugs were between .035-.033 from the factory...

As per your "low rail pressure" issue, This sounds exactly like an issue that some of the ecoboosters were seeing (Just can't remember the thread). I believe it happens when you started doing mixtures of e85 and 93. Did your vehicle start having these issues after you started doing a mixture? Or did you read the code after you did the mixture?

Also I'm sure I'll get crap from people (but who cares if I open this can of worms right?) but I'm still skeptical of the mDesign Intake system. Did this issue happen after lets say after a heavy rain and then its really warm outside?? I wonder if its an issue with air density, or humidity in the intake area. I know people say that "water cannot get into the intake area" but this would explain the "random loss of power". The only reason why I say something is because I know it rained heavy before the last heat wave out in the Midwest here.

+1 for ZSHO -- is it doing better now the temperature is down or are you still having issues?
18 Volvo S90 Inscription - 2.0T Twin Charged - Polestar Tuned.
17 Lincoln MKZ 3.0T GTDI -To Tune, or Not To Tune -- THAT is the question.
15 Road Glide Special - CFR Exhaust, Powder Coated everything, DirtyAir Air ride
14 Taurus SHO (Sold)
LMS 93 V8 3Bar Tune, K&N Intake, LMS 160 t-stat, LMS pre-gapped plugs, Corsa Exhaust

WickedSHO

So last week I took the car in for what I though were the hubs...Turns out there is a separate TSB ( TSB 14-0186) for the clicking noise in the front end of my car. Requires they replace two thrust washers on the half shaft, special order parts, so waiting for them to come in.

As far as how the car is running. I still think there are issues. So I've tried a few pulls from 0-60 and what I am noticing, is that when I am break boosting the car, and I let off the break, there is a slight hesitation before it actually goes...Maybe like .5 to 1 full second. I thought it was me, but I have tried it about a dozen times in the last few days since the weather is cooler. Best stock 0-60 run was 6.0, which is off from before which was 5.3.

Yes, I have new plug...Did them when I change to the 3bar.

I did start to notice this issue right about the same time I started adding e-85 to my car.

I was talking with a buddy of mine who has a 9 sec Camaro ss...He told me to dump a bottle of octane Booster in my car and see how it preforms...I did that, but as I mentioned, that slight hesitation when break boosting is really starting to bother me....What do you guys think?
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

ZSHO

#52
Quote from: 14SHOCAR on August 27, 2015, 10:39:42 AM
WickedSHO -- Sorry it took me a bit to respond.

Did you check the vacuum line as I had described?

Did you do the plugs on you car? AKA Getting a new set and gapping them to .032? My 2014's plugs were between .035-.033 from the factory...

As per your "low rail pressure" issue, This sounds exactly like an issue that some of the ecoboosters were seeing (Just can't remember the thread). I believe it happens when you started doing mixtures of e85 and 93. Did your vehicle start having these issues after you started doing a mixture? Or did you read the code after you did the mixture?

Also I'm sure I'll get crap from people (but who cares if I open this can of worms right?) but I'm still skeptical of the mDesign Intake system. Did this issue happen after lets say after a heavy rain and then its really warm outside?? I wonder if its an issue with air density, or humidity in the intake area. I know people say that "water cannot get into the intake area" but this would explain the "random loss of power". The only reason why I say something is because I know it rained heavy before the last heat wave out in the Midwest here.

+1 for ZSHO -- is it doing better now the temperature is down or are you still having issues?
Great point Brenton,could be something as simple as the IAT sensor coming off the intake gromett on the MD intake causing the issues.  Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

WickedSHO

I did check that hose the you saw 14SHOCAR and it was attached.
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

14SHOCAR

Quote from: WickedSHO on August 27, 2015, 11:22:11 AM
I did check that hose the you saw 14SHOCAR and it was attached.

Attached ... but is it loose? That hose in particular is where a lot of oil blow by gets caught. Just because it's attached doesn't mean it isn't leaking. Did you throw a clamp on it? It just screams the same power Issues I had with my SHO. It was almost like the turbo's would spool, but once it got to a certain boost level, it would feel like a normally aspirated Taurus.

Also, remember as you add e85, it is going to increase the fuel volume as it demands more timing. (I believe, it could be a delay in the cars fuel delivery -- AJPTurbo should have more insight into this).

When was the last time you ran a few tanks of straight 93?

I wouldn't keep adding fuel additives to your SHO... try going back to a stable build before adding more variables.
18 Volvo S90 Inscription - 2.0T Twin Charged - Polestar Tuned.
17 Lincoln MKZ 3.0T GTDI -To Tune, or Not To Tune -- THAT is the question.
15 Road Glide Special - CFR Exhaust, Powder Coated everything, DirtyAir Air ride
14 Taurus SHO (Sold)
LMS 93 V8 3Bar Tune, K&N Intake, LMS 160 t-stat, LMS pre-gapped plugs, Corsa Exhaust

ZSHO

#55
Did you check the IAT sensor on the MD intake as mentioned earlier,possibly could of came off the gromett,its a common issue.  Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

WickedSHO

I did not check the sensor. I will do that when I go for lunch.

the last two fill ups, have been straight 93. But I fill up when I get to half tank so there still might be alittle e-85 left in the tank.

The hose I tight...Not loose at all.
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

WickedSHO

So I checked the sensor yesterday after work, it was still in the same place it was when I installed the MD intake, but I did notice the blue probe on the sensor was dirty on one side, so I turned it around so that the side facing the front of the car was clean.

While I was in there, I noticed that the 90 degree tube that the intake attaches to was loose, the clamp was not even tight.

I replaced the intake, made sure all the clamps I could see were all tight and took the car for a drive. Not sure if it is in my head or not, but what a difference. Now I don't know if that fixed all the problems or if either of these were the cause in the first place.
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

ZSHO

Thats some great news,hopefully its a permanent fix .


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

AJP turbo

How much e85 was added?...a little would probably be ok...but a tank woe be bad ..I've never done it. But it's the stoic point that is the problem....but some others here know more than me about running a little E. ...I've never messed with the stuff

You need roughly 30% more fuel when running e85...that's why fuel pressure suffers...it's trying to dump extra fuel to achieve the commanded lambda

When ur tuner sets ur wot fuel tables he may set it for .80 that works for gas or e85 but it requires more fuel to get to .80 with E85

Depending on how much boost u run I wouldn't want more than like E20-E30

If u are close to being out of fuel at 18psi then it only gets worse the more E u have...but at 14-16 psi there should be some breathing room...with higher E content ur short term fuel from and long term trims will show it
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
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Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress