3 bar, tstat guys-- How's your driveability?

[ZSHO]

The stock oem is a 180 that comes with the car,the 160 stat is more beneficial for the car and especially for the fans cause it implements less usage by not going on so frequent.

[ElvenSho]

The stock oem is a 180 that comes with the car,the 160 stat is more beneficial for the car and especially for the fans cause it implements less usage by not going on so frequent.

interesting! I wonder why Torrie @ Unleashed does not sell it? I am assuming by looking at many data logs he came to a conclusion that it does not help?

[panther427]

The difference I would think is the 160 the fans will stay on constantly for often while the 170 would cycle on and off more like the stock 180 stat

[ElvenSho]

The difference I would think is the 160 the fans will stay on constantly for often while the 170 would cycle on and off more like the stock 180 stat

Wait so who's correct? you or the guy above?

[SHOdded]

Depends on how "hot" of a tune you run, or if you are constantly in traffic jams, or live in a very hot climate (like Phoenix, AZ or Death Valley, or even Miami ).  There are definite advantages to running the coolest TStat you can.  I don't know if there is a quantitative study telling you that the 160 is x% better than the 170 or stock TStat when looking as a/b/c/... parameters, though.  If you are tuning, generally you should go by the tuner's recommendations, ask them the question directly.  They will need to account for the TStat in the tune to get you the full benefits anyway.

[AJP turbo]

The difference I would think is the 160 the fans will stay on constantly for often while the 170 would cycle on and off more like the stock 180 stat

Depends on how the tune is setup and what you change the desired coolant temp scalar. If you leave the temp setting alone then with a 160 or 170 fans may hardly ever come on if the ambient temps are cool. Radiator alone maybe be efficient enough to maintain the coolant temps. But if you have a 160 stat and lower the desired coolant temp to say 175 then the fans may come on more than a stock car with a stock stat and fan setting.

Also I would say if you are running much cooler coolant you may reduce the temp in the head and combustion chamber requiring a hotter plug than stock. I don't know off the top of my head but there is a optimum temp at the spark plug tip for a good burn and when head temps are low you may not be getting the plug tip up to temp.


I would say low coolant temps is negated by the higher boost pressures people are running hence people running cooler plugs but that is best determined by reading the plugs. That's the whole reason to change temperature plugs to place the plug in the optimum operating temp....This coming from NGK anyway

[ZSHO]

The difference I would think is the 160 the fans will stay on constantly for often while the 170 would cycle on and off more like the stock 180 stat

Wait so who's correct? you or the guy above?

You wanted to know who's right,basically our answers are the same but phrased differently.

[ElvenSho]

The difference I would think is the 160 the fans will stay on constantly for often while the 170 would cycle on and off more like the stock 180 stat

Wait so who's correct? you or the guy above?

You wanted to know who's right,basically our answers are the same but phrased differently.

yup thanks! Lots of stuff to learn on here!

[AJP turbo]

The difference I would think is the 160 the fans will stay on constantly for often while the 170 would cycle on and off more like the stock 180 stat

Wait so who's correct? you or the guy above?

You wanted to know who's right,basically our answers are the same but phrased differently.

How are those answers the same? One said the fans come on less with a 160 and one said the fans stay on constantly.

With a 160 the fans would come on less if the scalars aren't changed in the tune. Desired coolant temp is 212 in the stock calibration but fans will come on more if the coolant temp setting is lowered closer to 160 with the 160 stat.

A lot of hardware changes with late model cars also require a calibration change to take full advantage...You can get away with intakes on these cars because they used speed density tuning logic(MAP based). If these were mass air flow tuned then I wouldn't throw an intake on without a tune for example

[Brucelinc]

I run a 3 bar simply because LME's most aggressive tune requires it.  Prior to that I was running their most aggressive 2 bar tune.  There is an upgrade in performance with the 3 bar tune but I don't think it is specifically due to the 3 bar sensor.  Yes, the 3 bar tune improves idle quality and overall smoothness but, again, I am not saying the reason is due specifically the sensor.  More likely, in my opinion, Dan came up with a better balance of timing, boost and A/F ratio.  I will certainly defer to those who have spoken with him on the subject, however.

[AJP turbo]

I run a 3 bar simply because LME's most aggressive tune requires it.  Prior to that I was running their most aggressive 2 bar tune.  There is an upgrade in performance with the 3 bar tune but I don't think it is specifically due to the 3 bar sensor.  Yes, the 3 bar tune improves idle quality and overall smoothness but, again, I am not saying the reason is due specifically the sensor.  More likely, in my opinion, Dan came up with a better balance of timing, boost and A/F ratio.  I will certainly defer to those who have spoken with him on the subject, however.

I'm basically done with this for this thread but I've already explained pretty thoroughly the reasons why the 3 bar sensor itself CANNOT make the car idle better or run smooter. Those that don't tune maybe aren't capable of understanding resolution. You are in a way asking the ECU to determine a reading from the MAP sensor with less detail. The reason you don't experience worse drivability with a 3 bar is the amount of resolution that is lost is not near enough for the problem to manifest itself as a detectable or depreciable difference to the user.

But there are many other ways in the tune to improve drivability and  "smoothness"

When a sensor is between 2 points the ECU has to "interpolate". With a 2 Bar sensor the distance between the 2 points is smaller and there are more defined points  on the scale. The scale for a 2 bar being 0 volts is 0 bar and 5 volts being 2 bar or max scale. With a 3 bar sensor the ECU has to interpolate more because the space between the points is greater, this is a loss of resolution.

[SHOdded]

Those that don't tune maybe aren't capable of understanding resolution.

Here's the thing, if you "illustrate" what you are saying, it will be a lot easier to understand.  How about a comparative table that shows you an example?  A "picture" is worth a 1,000 words, even today.

I would agree with your premise if the same number of data points are being provided by both the 2 bar & 3 bar sensors.  I don't know that for a fact, but it is a reasonable assumption.  I assume a test run with a hooked up speedy OBD monitor can confirm empirically, the tuners probably know already.

[ZSHO]

The difference I would think is the 160 the fans will stay on constantly for often while the 170 would cycle on and off more like the stock 180 stat

Wait so who's correct? you or the guy above?

You wanted to know who's right,basically our answers are the same but phrased differently.

How are those answers the same? One said the fans come on less with a 160 and one said the fans stay on constantly.

With a 160 the fans would come on less if the scalars aren't changed in the tune. Desired coolant temp is 212 in the stock calibration but fans will come on more if the coolant temp setting is lowered closer to 160 with the 160 stat.

A lot of hardware changes with late model cars also require a calibration change to take full advantage...You can get away with intakes on these cars because they used speed density tuning logic(MAP based). If these were mass air flow tuned then I wouldn't throw an intake on without a tune for example

You really like to push buttons dont you!!! stay on constantly rather than cycle on or off,and my answer was it implements less usage from going on and off(meaning they stay on longer).

[AJP turbo]

I thought u were pushing my buttons lol

[Livernois Motorsports]

I am really happy with the current tune in every aspect,the only thing i would change in perspective is the Reische 170stat to the LME 160stat which i believe is better for performance and provides better longevity twards the fans.

what's the difference between the 160 and 170? It's only 10 degrees. I'm pretty sure the stock one is 190 degrees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are basically right, stock is 178°. The giant issue with the stock unit is that it allows for too much temp travel, which results in the inability to dump heat soaking. Our 160° unit allows for better efficiency and repeatability when driving. We found out the hard way, that 170° units are too close to stock and actually keep your fans running in a constant fashion, robbing power.