A Question for LME on VTA

BiGMaC · December 13, 2014, 08:57:13 PM

A question for LME... Do you believe having BOVs VTA degrades performance or longevity of the 3.5TT GDI engine in the SHO? TIA

Livernois Motorsports · December 15, 2014, 05:53:22 PM

Quote from: BiGMaC on December 13, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
A question for LME... Do you believe having BOVs VTA degrades performance or longevity of the 3.5TT GDI engine in the SHO? TIA

SORRY FOR THE DELAY, BUT I WAS OUT OF TOWN AT THE PRI SHOW ALL WEEK!

We do not recommend any VTA mods for the EB line. The reason that they create so much torque is because of the recirculating turbo system. Because of the recirculating turbos being switched out to VTA there would be a drop in power. This has been proven over and over in the Fusion, FiST and FoST models.

IHeartGroceries · December 15, 2014, 06:20:50 PM

If possible, can you provide some data?

I'm trying to make things add up, but I don't see it.

With a speed density control loop, with metering downstream of the valves, what does it matter? Additionally, the valve(s) primary function takes place when there isn't even load on the engine.

SHOnUup · December 15, 2014, 06:46:07 PM

Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on December 15, 2014, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on December 13, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
A question for LME... Do you believe having BOVs VTA degrades performance or longevity of the 3.5TT GDI engine in the SHO? TIA

SORRY FOR THE DELAY, BUT I WAS OUT OF TOWN AT THE PRI SHOW ALL WEEK!

We do not recommend any VTA mods for the EB line. The reason that they create so much torque is because of the recirculating turbo system. Because of the recirculating turbos being switched out to VTA there would be a drop in power. This has been proven over and over in the Fusion, FiST and FoST models.

Thanks for the input.

Data just confuses stuff...lol

Rich

peppelepugh · December 15, 2014, 09:17:14 PM

welp.... might just slap the recirc pipes back on.... it was fun while it lasted... lol

BiGMaC · December 15, 2014, 10:59:50 PM

Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on December 15, 2014, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: BiGMaC on December 13, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
A question for LME... Do you believe having BOVs VTA degrades performance or longevity of the 3.5TT GDI engine in the SHO? TIA

SORRY FOR THE DELAY, BUT I WAS OUT OF TOWN AT THE PRI SHOW ALL WEEK!

We do not recommend any VTA mods for the EB line. The reason that they create so much torque is because of the recirculating turbo system. Because of the recirculating turbos being switched out to VTA there would be a drop in power. This has been proven over and over in the Fusion, FiST and FoST models.

Hope you had a great time at PRI. Two other questions please: first, is this phenomena seen in the 3.5TT?, and second is there an explanation for why it occurs. TIA

navbtcret · December 15, 2014, 11:01:09 PM

I have aftermarket hot pipes with a TiAL blow off valve and I have to disagree. Unless you can show me numbers to prove this. The valve only opens when I let off the gas and only for a split second, it does not open when it shifts as it is staying in boost. I ran the same times at the track with the stock pipes and with the aftermarket pipes vented to the atmosphere.

I bought the pipes used or I would have stayed with the stock BOV's because I am not a big fan of the noise but my performance has not been reduced from the pipes. When I was at the track after installing them it was warmer and more humid and the car still ran the same.

EcoPowerParts · December 15, 2014, 11:08:27 PM

I would ask that you do back to back dyno's of a car with VTA to prove this theory on the EB 3.5.

panther427 · December 15, 2014, 11:22:00 PM

Quote from: 4DRHTRD on December 15, 2014, 11:08:27 PM
I would ask that you do back to back dyno's of a car with VTA to prove this theory on the EB 3.5.

I too would like to see this done. I can see both sides of the picture. Both it not having an effect and it having an effect. Though in my personal thoughts is a wot pull it won't matter. But part throttle daily driving throttle response could be hurt. Adding a hair more lag.

EcoPowerParts · December 15, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

So here's my thought, on an auto car the BoV is closed, all the time unless releasing the throttle. How can this impact the HP of the car? I floor it from a stand still all the way through the 1/4 mile, when does the BoV open that would cause any type of effect on this engine.
4 cylinder, stick yes, I can see it as they describe, V6 auto, hmm no.

MDesign Performance · December 16, 2014, 04:29:52 AM

I believe the car still factors in the amount of air released from the BOV and when you vent it to atmosphere you're losing that small amount of metered air. That could have a affect on air fuel ratios, however small of a affect it might have. Try checking your air fuel ratios in similar conditions, VTA and recirculated. I know I threw mine on a while back.

SHOnUup · December 16, 2014, 07:03:36 AM

State something simple, need a written and logged statement including data.....

Sell a new product, don't need any kind of proof to make claims.

Pretty weird how some of you choose to just accept some vendors claims, and others you dont.

Pretty damn lame and actually childish....makes me question the entire being of this site and what's pushed here now.

Rich

EcoPowerParts · December 16, 2014, 07:53:29 AM

Quote from: SHOnUup on December 16, 2014, 07:03:36 AM
State something simple, need a written and logged statement including data.....

Sell a new product, don't need any kind of proof to make claims.

Pretty weird how some of you choose to just accept some vendors claims, and others you dont.

Pretty damn lame and actually childish....makes me question the entire being of this site and what's pushed here now.

Rich

Nothing is being pushed, there's just a question of how this is valid. I don't think anybody else is claiming this or actually any other vendors are coming on claiming anything at all.

BiGMaC · December 16, 2014, 08:10:21 AM

No dis to anyone intended.. I have the utmost respect for our membership as well as both LME and Dan Millen, but I do have trouble understanding why VTA would compromise performance for the reasons people site, and hope for insight as I am trying to understand how my engine functions...like are there specific instances where VTA compromises the 3.5TT GDI performance and if it is a statement that holds across all EB versions? I acknowledge that dyno pulls can differ from real world at times for a number of reasons.

Maybe I'm off base, but I perceive the requests for dyno data as desire for quantification.... So that informed decisions can be made when modding.

SHOdded · December 16, 2014, 08:32:12 AM

I claim at best cursory knowledge of this situation, but the discussions around the web w regard to VTA revolve around: a) do you have MAF or MAP, b) do you have a BPV or a BOV, and c) where is the valve physically located in relation to the MAF/MAP sensor? If we all dig into this research project, maybe we can find links/discussions/data out there