A Question for LME on VTA

[EcoPowerParts]

I guess you get a lot of low-humidity, high-heat days, Mike?

Interior temps of cars hit 170+ - video below is not me
Car interior reaches unbelievable temp-Phoenix, AZ

Humidity is non-existent here in the summer -



Why do I live here?
62 out and everything is green and nice right now - 8 months of awesome 4 months of HELL vs 4-6 months frozen solid/ice, 2 months in spring/fall good weather and 2-3 months horrible humidity and bugs (we don't really have mosquitos here)

[Livernois Motorsports]

Well, if there was a problem that would merit replacement, however, The thermal properties of metal vs. rubber and thermoplastic are definitely something to consider. If we had a problem, we would likely replace them with OEM parts due to thermal concerns, since a silicone coupler can deteriorate as well. Many diesel engines have Silicone/nomex couplers like used in the aftermarket and they also deteriorate. That's all we want people to know, if they are ok with chasing sound with some drop in power and consistency due to the thermal exchange differences that is fine. We just want customers to make educated decisions on things rather than just buying products because they exist.

[bigmoneycloser]

Well these cars are speed density so no MAF so no issues there. As it's an auto you don't have engagement of the BoV during acceleration like a stick car due to lifting of the throttle. The cars notated are definitely stick vs our auto. I think it's a matter of hey those have ecoboost and this has an ecoboost so it must be the same.
I don't care either way, just want proof for the general population. There's no vendor slant to this request just hey if you're going to say it then prove it and this is a pretty big statement IMHO.

First...I respect all your info and efforts to push this platform forward. Without your efforts we'd be years behind still.

Second....I've only heard of and have quit reading anything here pertaining to the differences between certain parties. I DON'T CARE...I just like cars and want everyone to succeed.

When you comment on issues, it should carry added weight being the owner and parts supplier.

When MDESIGN brings out new CAI and handicaps a known performance killing CAI in comparison to tout 15 HP gain, I'd expect a comment in there wanting more testing at least to tout these #'s on my site.

I still feel MDesign CAI is the best one for us, but if there's no solid data needed here, why is it needed elsewhere.

I guess it's the consistency I'm looking for.

Rich

Sorry Rich, I didn't see those statements, I just saw this one. I've been working 5:30 until 2:30 day job and 3pm until 11pm M-F and Sat 6a to 10p getting new shop ready, getting cars read for an event this last weekend etc. I try to read as much as I can and post where I can. I'd love to see dyno's proving any CAI making more HP, it would definitely validate the product.

Well I posted 10+ HP gains on my before and after dynos... With just the MDesign intake vs the air raid intake....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[panther427]

Everything has its limits. The quality silicone/nomex will last longer than a quality rubber connection. The biggest thing will be long term issue with rubber and plastic is the oil and fuel that can get into the intact track and brake it down over time.. and by time i mean 10+ years hell even 20+ years. Rubber isn't bad its cheaper and the car company's use the product that is the cheapest but effective part they can use to turn a profit.

There is a reason people need to replace several different types of hoses and connections with silicone.. I don't think we are at the "need" level yet but switching to silicone or staying rubber isnt bad either way. For most people. 

[BiGMaC]

Everything has its limits. The quality silicone/nomex will last longer than a quality rubber connection. The biggest thing will be long term issue with rubber and plastic is the oil and fuel that can get into the intact track and brake it down over time.. and by time i mean 10+ years hell even 20+ years. Rubber isn't bad its cheaper and the car company's use the product that is the cheapest but effective part they can use to turn a profit.

There is a reason people need to replace several different types of hoses and connections with silicone.. I don't think we are at the "need" level yet but switching to silicone or staying rubber isnt bad either way. For most people. 

I want with black AN  fittings and black ss mesh over hoses!   This is not helping me convince my wife that "need" is spelled w.a.n.t   LOL

[Livernois Motorsports]

Well these cars are speed density so no MAF so no issues there. As it's an auto you don't have engagement of the BoV during acceleration like a stick car due to lifting of the throttle. The cars notated are definitely stick vs our auto. I think it's a matter of hey those have ecoboost and this has an ecoboost so it must be the same.
I don't care either way, just want proof for the general population. There's no vendor slant to this request just hey if you're going to say it then prove it and this is a pretty big statement IMHO.

First...I respect all your info and efforts to push this platform forward. Without your efforts we'd be years behind still.

Second....I've only heard of and have quit reading anything here pertaining to the differences between certain parties. I DON'T CARE...I just like cars and want everyone to succeed.

When you comment on issues, it should carry added weight being the owner and parts supplier.

When MDESIGN brings out new CAI and handicaps a known performance killing CAI in comparison to tout 15 HP gain, I'd expect a comment in there wanting more testing at least to tout these #'s on my site.

I still feel MDesign CAI is the best one for us, but if there's no solid data needed here, why is it needed elsewhere.

I guess it's the consistency I'm looking for.

Rich

Sorry Rich, I didn't see those statements, I just saw this one. I've been working 5:30 until 2:30 day job and 3pm until 11pm M-F and Sat 6a to 10p getting new shop ready, getting cars read for an event this last weekend etc. I try to read as much as I can and post where I can. I'd love to see dyno's proving any CAI making more HP, it would definitely validate the product.

Well I posted 10+ HP gains on my before and after dynos... With just the MDesign intake vs the air raid intake....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But the problem is this, how was the testing done.

We went through great lengths to perform testing as accurately as possible. This means ECT, ACT, Ambient conditions, oil temp, etc were all as close as possible to provide accurate testing, and then back it up with track tests.

The problem is most people that "self test" do not realize how small things can effect a test dramatically. therefor skewing their results, and often creating doubt about a good product, and faith in a useless product for the community as a whole.

Unfortunately, testing things and having accurate data has never really had an impact on whether the community believes in a product or not. As mentioned in here earlier, we constantly get berated for information about our claims (even though our claims always back themselves up), while other companies can just say "man, this is awesome, you need it" and people take them at their word. Never mind we have uninstalled "miracle upgrades" on these cars and had them run better and more consistent at the track.

At the end of the day, if someone is OK with putting on a part that has zero performance benefit, and usually a deficit due to the other required parts, then that's fine with us since it isn't creating a durability concern. We just want people to be educated about it rather than buying into hype, or thinking it will do something it won't.

[J-Will]

We went through great lengths to perform testing as accurately as possible. This means ECT, ACT, Ambient conditions, oil temp, etc were all as close as possible to provide accurate testing, and then back it up with track tests.

The problem is most people that "self test" do not realize how small things can effect a test dramatically. therefor skewing their results, and often creating doubt about a good product, and faith in a useless product for the community as a whole.

Unfortunately, testing things and having accurate data has never really had an impact on whether the community believes in a product or not. As mentioned in here earlier, we constantly get berated for information about our claims (even though our claims always back themselves up), while other companies can just say "man, this is awesome, you need it" and people take them at their word. Never mind we have uninstalled "miracle upgrades" on these cars and had them run better and more consistent at the track.

At the end of the day, if someone is OK with putting on a part that has zero performance benefit, and usually a deficit due to the other required parts, then that's fine with us since it isn't creating a durability concern. We just want people to be educated about it rather than buying into hype, or thinking it will do something it won't.

I appreciate the methods and approach to backing the products you offer.  Furthermore, continually coming to the board and explaining/ vouching for the products and outcomes even when members here challenge your findings.

I think most people (or at least myself) attempt to gather as much info from as many different sources as they can.  Relying on a single source is simply not a good approach.  And I think this is why LME needs to continually and actively take the approach they have in describing products, answering questions, and explaining results.

[bigmoneycloser]

Well these cars are speed density so no MAF so no issues there. As it's an auto you don't have engagement of the BoV during acceleration like a stick car due to lifting of the throttle. The cars notated are definitely stick vs our auto. I think it's a matter of hey those have ecoboost and this has an ecoboost so it must be the same.
I don't care either way, just want proof for the general population. There's no vendor slant to this request just hey if you're going to say it then prove it and this is a pretty big statement IMHO.

First...I respect all your info and efforts to push this platform forward. Without your efforts we'd be years behind still.

Second....I've only heard of and have quit reading anything here pertaining to the differences between certain parties. I DON'T CARE...I just like cars and want everyone to succeed.

When you comment on issues, it should carry added weight being the owner and parts supplier.

When MDESIGN brings out new CAI and handicaps a known performance killing CAI in comparison to tout 15 HP gain, I'd expect a comment in there wanting more testing at least to tout these #'s on my site.

I still feel MDesign CAI is the best one for us, but if there's no solid data needed here, why is it needed elsewhere.

I guess it's the consistency I'm looking for.

Rich

Sorry Rich, I didn't see those statements, I just saw this one. I've been working 5:30 until 2:30 day job and 3pm until 11pm M-F and Sat 6a to 10p getting new shop ready, getting cars read for an event this last weekend etc. I try to read as much as I can and post where I can. I'd love to see dyno's proving any CAI making more HP, it would definitely validate the product.

Well I posted 10+ HP gains on my before and after dynos... With just the MDesign intake vs the air raid intake....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But the problem is this, how was the testing done.

We went through great lengths to perform testing as accurately as possible. This means ECT, ACT, Ambient conditions, oil temp, etc were all as close as possible to provide accurate testing, and then back it up with track tests.

The problem is most people that "self test" do not realize how small things can effect a test dramatically. therefor skewing their results, and often creating doubt about a good product, and faith in a useless product for the community as a whole.

Unfortunately, testing things and having accurate data has never really had an impact on whether the community believes in a product or not. As mentioned in here earlier, we constantly get berated for information about our claims (even though our claims always back themselves up), while other companies can just say "man, this is awesome, you need it" and people take them at their word. Never mind we have uninstalled "miracle upgrades" on these cars and had them run better and more consistent at the track.

At the end of the day, if someone is OK with putting on a part that has zero performance benefit, and usually a deficit due to the other required parts, then that's fine with us since it isn't creating a durability concern. We just want people to be educated about it rather than buying into hype, or thinking it will do something it won't.

Well, since you quoted me on this and referenced my claims, let me fill you in.

I am a HUGE LMS fan! Every performance part on my Xsport came from LMS!(except my new intake)

I am not a big car guy, but love all my LMS performance upgrades and tell everyone about them! Unfortunately I am more of a check book guy Becuase of time and knowledge. I prefer to pay the experts to install my performance and aftermarket products...

With that said, I took a chance on a new product developed for our cars. I'm not a dyno wizard. But I had a before and after dyno done within 45 minutes of eachother first with the air raid and then the new MDesign intake. It did show 10+ HP gains.

There was not a scientific controlled setting, just a dyno run before and after.


It kinda annoys me that you discredit the "testing" of this intake without knowing how I had it tested? Maybe I had it done in the FORD test lab! You don't know. You didn't ask.
For someone who is always challenged here I would think you wouldn't do that. I know you don't like it when others do it to you.

With all that said, I challenge YOU LMS!
Spend the $350 for this new intake and test it in your controlled environment!
The developer is local. Allow him to watch you test it. Let the results speak for them self! There is no down side for you here.
If the intake tanks in your controlled setting, "your right" you win. If the intake performs well, you make an exclusive offer to sell, you also win.....
I bet he would give you one for free.
Test it on a stock vehicle and test it on a mod'ed vehicle..

Looking forward to see if your up to the challenge in the name of Accuair testing and advancing the platform..

Thanks
And much love from a FOREVER LMS customer!






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Livernois Motorsports]

That's what we strive to do. We have never been one to let resistance to what we have to say silence us. We want the community to move forward, rather than stagnate and get overrun with gimmick parts. This sometimes means going against what is popular, but we care about performance and durability above all else. Anything else ruins people's desire to modify and enjoy these cars.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Well these cars are speed density so no MAF so no issues there. As it's an auto you don't have engagement of the BoV during acceleration like a stick car due to lifting of the throttle. The cars notated are definitely stick vs our auto. I think it's a matter of hey those have ecoboost and this has an ecoboost so it must be the same.
I don't care either way, just want proof for the general population. There's no vendor slant to this request just hey if you're going to say it then prove it and this is a pretty big statement IMHO.

First...I respect all your info and efforts to push this platform forward. Without your efforts we'd be years behind still.

Second....I've only heard of and have quit reading anything here pertaining to the differences between certain parties. I DON'T CARE...I just like cars and want everyone to succeed.

When you comment on issues, it should carry added weight being the owner and parts supplier.

When MDESIGN brings out new CAI and handicaps a known performance killing CAI in comparison to tout 15 HP gain, I'd expect a comment in there wanting more testing at least to tout these #'s on my site.

I still feel MDesign CAI is the best one for us, but if there's no solid data needed here, why is it needed elsewhere.

I guess it's the consistency I'm looking for.

Rich

Sorry Rich, I didn't see those statements, I just saw this one. I've been working 5:30 until 2:30 day job and 3pm until 11pm M-F and Sat 6a to 10p getting new shop ready, getting cars read for an event this last weekend etc. I try to read as much as I can and post where I can. I'd love to see dyno's proving any CAI making more HP, it would definitely validate the product.

Well I posted 10+ HP gains on my before and after dynos... With just the MDesign intake vs the air raid intake....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats probably because you were losing 10 with the Airaid.

That being said, I don't even care if it doesn't make any power over stock as long as it doesn't lose power like the K&N. Its gorgeous so it will be a nice aesthetic upgrade for car shows.

if Livernois is up to the test challenge, maybe all of us concerned parties could donate some money towards science. Nothing is free in this world.

[Livernois Motorsports]

Well, since you quoted me on this and referenced my claims, let me fill you in.

I am a HUGE LMS fan! Every performance part on my Xsport came from LMS!(except my new intake)

I am not a big car guy, but love all my LMS performance upgrades and tell everyone about them! Unfortunately I am more of a check book guy Becuase of time and knowledge. I prefer to pay the experts to install my performance and aftermarket products...

With that said, I took a chance on a new product developed for our cars. I'm not a dyno wizard. But I had a before and after dyno done within 45 minutes of eachother first with the air raid and then the new MDesign intake. It did show 10+ HP gains.

There was not a scientific controlled setting, just a dyno run before and after.


It kinda annoys me that you discredit the "testing" of this intake without knowing how I had it tested? Maybe I had it done in the FORD test lab! You don't know. You didn't ask.
For someone who is always challenged here I would think you wouldn't do that. I know you don't like it when others do it to you.

With all that said, I challenge YOU LMS!
Spend the $350 for this new intake and test it in your controlled environment!
The developer is local. Allow him to watch you test it. Let the results speak for them self! There is no down side for you here.
If the intake tanks in your controlled setting, "your right" you win. If the intake performs well, you make an exclusive offer to sell, you also win.....
I bet he would give you one for free.
Test it on a stock vehicle and test it on a mod'ed vehicle..

Looking forward to see if your up to the challenge in the name of Accuair testing and advancing the platform..

Thanks
And much love from a FOREVER LMS customer!






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What was said above was in satire. It was saying that the more specific and accurate the testing, the more the community seems to have disdain for it. So it was simply acknowledging your test, and saying that a generic hp claim would be taken more seriously than a fully documented test, while also suggesting that the best way to sell any new product is to simply say it's awesome, provide no hp, or track data, and people will buy it.

That isn't a knock against the intake, or your post. It's just stating that it seems like people will flock to products that do nothing and have no data, like the products with little data, and question the products that have a ton of data and results.

[SHOnUup]

Figured it'd be took wrong.

If anyone actually pays attention to the actual reviews of the Airaid, especially for the Explorer. Where there is a large gap at top of the blade allowing for hot air to be sucked in constantly. I'd think most would agree that it is a performance downgrade.

Not once have I ever said a bad word about the MDESIGN and have continuously said on many sites how I think it's the best available.

A bit skeptical on the test, but who isnt?

I actually feel in a test vs. Stock box it will pull a few extra ponies...3-5

Sorry for being that guy in the thread, my apologies to all. I just like info and there's a way to go about it, as to not supress it in the long run I feel.

Rich

[MDesign Performance]

Nothing is free in this world.

I just finished up my semester so I can chime in now.

This is exactly it, I am a one man operation with 80% of my time going to law school and other obligations, whatever free time I have left is spent on the love of cars. I am not a corporation that makes hundreds of thousands a year nor do I have those hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of testing equipment. Will I some day, that's quite a possibility. I've been wrenching and modifying cars for almost 10 years now and have decided to take a step in the direction of giving one community something that was not available, a true cold air intake that did not heat soak.

If any of you have been following, there has been about 5 iterations of the MDesign intake, each time improving on the previous until we got to where we are at today. Would I like to "scientifically test" the intake, absolutely, though as FoMoCoSHO stated nothing is free and as a one man operation I do have my limits. Thus, this is why I reached out and had a fellow member (BigMoneyCloser) assist so we could get some type of numbers which we did, on a dyno, and showed a gain over another brand of intake. Anthony did not perform the testing himself, he had a reputable performance shop conduct the dyno testing who I am inclined to believe are qualified in performing before and after dyno testings, thats what they do, and therefore I trust the claims just as if I would trust them if they came out of Livernois' shop.

In short, I'm not bashing anyone and I deeply respect the amount of knowledge from the members that are involved in this thread. As Livernois stated some companies can put out intakes without any real data while others who do post data will have that data scrutinized. This same brand of intake that we made power over is being sold without any "scientific tests", and even though there are a group of people who know that this same intake actually causes a loss, this intake still sells. You can't please everyone as everyone will have their own beliefs, opinions and bias.

[SHOdded]

Certainly we could do with a consistent testing environment that, with the developer's permission & presence, would share time on the facility to allow for consistent data.  Maybe this type of set up already exists, say (not the best example, but you get the drift) Consumer Reports.  As FoMoCoSHO said, wouldn't be free, but if people believe in the developer's product, maybe a microfinance operation would help provide the funds for such testing.

[sunwolf]

Well these cars are speed density so no MAF so no issues there. As it's an auto you don't have engagement of the BoV during acceleration like a stick car due to lifting of the throttle. The cars notated are definitely stick vs our auto. I think it's a matter of hey those have ecoboost and this has an ecoboost so it must be the same.
I don't care either way, just want proof for the general population. There's no vendor slant to this request just hey if you're going to say it then prove it and this is a pretty big statement IMHO.

First...I respect all your info and efforts to push this platform forward. Without your efforts we'd be years behind still.

Second....I've only heard of and have quit reading anything here pertaining to the differences between certain parties. I DON'T CARE...I just like cars and want everyone to succeed.

When you comment on issues, it should carry added weight being the owner and parts supplier.

When MDESIGN brings out new CAI and handicaps a known performance killing CAI in comparison to tout 15 HP gain, I'd expect a comment in there wanting more testing at least to tout these #'s on my site.

I still feel MDesign CAI is the best one for us, but if there's no solid data needed here, why is it needed elsewhere.

I guess it's the consistency I'm looking for.

Rich

Sorry Rich, I didn't see those statements, I just saw this one. I've been working 5:30 until 2:30 day job and 3pm until 11pm M-F and Sat 6a to 10p getting new shop ready, getting cars read for an event this last weekend etc. I try to read as much as I can and post where I can. I'd love to see dyno's proving any CAI making more HP, it would definitely validate the product.

Well I posted 10+ HP gains on my before and after dynos... With just the MDesign intake vs the air raid intake....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But the problem is this, how was the testing done.

We went through great lengths to perform testing as accurately as possible. This means ECT, ACT, Ambient conditions, oil temp, etc were all as close as possible to provide accurate testing, and then back it up with track tests.

The problem is most people that "self test" do not realize how small things can effect a test dramatically. therefor skewing their results, and often creating doubt about a good product, and faith in a useless product for the community as a whole.

Unfortunately, testing things and having accurate data has never really had an impact on whether the community believes in a product or not. As mentioned in here earlier, we constantly get berated for information about our claims (even though our claims always back themselves up), while other companies can just say "man, this is awesome, you need it" and people take them at their word. Never mind we have uninstalled "miracle upgrades" on these cars and had them run better and more consistent at the track.

At the end of the day, if someone is OK with putting on a part that has zero performance benefit, and usually a deficit due to the other required parts, then that's fine with us since it isn't creating a durability concern. We just want people to be educated about it rather than buying into hype, or thinking it will do something it won't.

Well, since you quoted me on this and referenced my claims, let me fill you in.

I am a HUGE LMS fan! Every performance part on my Xsport came from LMS!(except my new intake)

I am not a big car guy, but love all my LMS performance upgrades and tell everyone about them! Unfortunately I am more of a check book guy Becuase of time and knowledge. I prefer to pay the experts to install my performance and aftermarket products...

With that said, I took a chance on a new product developed for our cars. I'm not a dyno wizard. But I had a before and after dyno done within 45 minutes of eachother first with the air raid and then the new MDesign intake. It did show 10+ HP gains.

There was not a scientific controlled setting, just a dyno run before and after.


It kinda annoys me that you discredit the "testing" of this intake without knowing how I had it tested? Maybe I had it done in the FORD test lab! You don't know. You didn't ask.
For someone who is always challenged here I would think you wouldn't do that. I know you don't like it when others do it to you.

With all that said, I challenge YOU LMS!
Spend the $350 for this new intake and test it in your controlled environment!
The developer is local. Allow him to watch you test it. Let the results speak for them self! There is no down side for you here.
If the intake tanks in your controlled setting, "your right" you win. If the intake performs well, you make an exclusive offer to sell, you also win.....
I bet he would give you one for free.
Test it on a stock vehicle and test it on a mod'ed vehicle..

Looking forward to see if your up to the challenge in the name of Accuair testing and advancing the platform..

Thanks
And much love from a FOREVER LMS customer!






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry to revive a dead thread. I was considering a dyno tune this summer. I would be willing to use my car for the test and I will buy the winning air intake provided it beats the stock one.

Also I just removed the tubes from the stock BOV for my VTA. Just to be clear, In this case am I sacrificing anything?