Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 16, 2014, 12:28:40 PM
I have someone who has actually worked in a ford service department who is going to swing by and address some of the info in this thread.

I'm anxious to hear what is said about this and whether it's Ford policy or local dealer management.

Edit: and how the two interact.  Thanks FoMoCo

Since we are on the topic of voiding warranties from modifications, I am hearing that intake and exhausts are acceptable but would adding downpipes without a tune void it? I know the answer of "if it's the cause of a failure then yes", I'm more curious if anyone has had a dealer say anything to them about their DP's?


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Quote from: SHO-Down on May 16, 2014, 02:43:21 PM
Since we are on the topic of voiding warranties from modifications, I am hearing that intake and exhausts are acceptable but would adding downpipes without a tune void it? I know the answer of "if it's the cause of a failure then yes", I'm more curious if anyone has had a dealer say anything to them about their DP's?

This is kind of an oxymoron... or maybe catch-22.  If the car is found tuned that alone voids the warranty.

BTW... I have been told my downpipes are just part of "air in - air out" (exhaust) by my dealership, as well as my hotpipes... they commented how good they looked... I asked specifically about warranty and was told no problem... 7 trips to this service dept.

Quote from: SHO-Down on May 16, 2014, 02:43:21 PM
Since we are on the topic of voiding warranties from modifications, I am hearing that intake and exhausts are acceptable but would adding downpipes without a tune void it? I know the answer of "if it's the cause of a failure then yes", I'm more curious if anyone has had a dealer say anything to them about their DP's?


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Per the TSB SwampRat posted, DP's could cause an over speeding of the turbos, so technically they probably could use it against you.





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I think that's the key. ANY mod to the engine, air in/out included, could be used against honoring the warranty if your dealership thought that's what was causing your failure.
While most dealerships are fine with minor mods, the bottom line is that it's just going to come down to your dealer and how they feel about it.

I think for anyone that's worried about losing their warranty, but still wants to mod, discussing your options with your dealer first (or finding a new one) is your best (only) course of action. Even then, there's some dice rolling involved.

Quote from: Wilson on May 16, 2014, 03:46:42 PM

Quote from: SHO-Down on May 16, 2014, 02:43:21 PM
Since we are on the topic of voiding warranties from modifications, I am hearing that intake and exhausts are acceptable but would adding downpipes without a tune void it? I know the answer of "if it's the cause of a failure then yes", I'm more curious if anyone has had a dealer say anything to them about their DP's?


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Per the TSB SwampRat posted, DP's could cause an over speeding of the turbos, so technically they probably could use it against you.





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I would like someone to explain how this is possible....

It's not like adding downpipes affects the waste gate in any way.

I can see it building boost faster, but not overreving the turbos.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 17, 2014, 01:17:31 PM

Quote from: Wilson on May 16, 2014, 03:46:42 PM

Quote from: SHO-Down on May 16, 2014, 02:43:21 PM
Since we are on the topic of voiding warranties from modifications, I am hearing that intake and exhausts are acceptable but would adding downpipes without a tune void it? I know the answer of "if it's the cause of a failure then yes", I'm more curious if anyone has had a dealer say anything to them about their DP's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Per the TSB SwampRat posted, DP's could cause an over speeding of the turbos, so technically they probably could use it against you.





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I would like someone to explain how this is possible....

It's not like adding downpipes affects the waste gate in any way.

I can see it building boost faster, but not overreving the turbos.

The TSB only mentions removal of cats and resonators.... True Ford could void warranties for CAIs... and has, but The TSB was interpreted in the post you ask about FMCS, it does not mention DPs.  It talks about deletion of exhaust components only... I have catted DPs due to being in an emissions testing state... So I hav reoved nothing... I agree, as does my dealer, with your interpreattion....

Still I will acknowledge that in a catastrophic failure... where cost of repair exceeds average legal expenses in these issues... ANY engine mod could result in voiding warranty.

Regardless of protective legislation, when a lawsuit is filed it costs every party money.  Ford has a deeper pocket than I, and I'm sure all settlements include a nondisclosure cause, which is why we speculate rather than refer to all the cases we can't find. 
(As I mentioned earlier, I have had these tactics used against me by a corporation to make my suit go away)

Still I will mod away... I'm tuned anyway (and LOVE it!)... but I'm not trying to push the envelop to extremes.... maybe someday when I can have LMS build me an engine!

I would suggest to anyone who has voided warranty issues to exercise your right of third party mediation. That removes the need for attorneys, keeps you from having to operate in the land of legal mumbo jumbo and procedural land mines, and forces them to prove to a neutral 3rd party that your mod caused the damage. It also gives you the opportunity to question them about engineering design limits, intended use, etc.

The fact of the matter is, there is plenty of information widely available to mount a formidable attack on their warranty policies. Yup, you may not win, but then again, you may. Cost? $0, just your time spent researching. Keep in mind the minute you start to make them the least bit uncomfortable, or put them in a position that they are forced to divulge info they would prefer not to, they will probably decide to give up or at least work toward some kind of compromise.

I have used this option successfully with everything from workman's comp to insurance claims and have been successful EVERY TIME! It is amazing what can happen when the lawyer aspect is neutralized and the little guy can represent their case with nothing but facts and logic.

My favorite case was a workman's comp appeal. Their lawyers, my lawyers, and the BWC panel. Halfway through I fired my lawyers and proceeded to mop the floor with the employers high priced attack dogs. Judgement for FoMoCoSHO!

FoMoCoSHO, you bring up a strong point:
Has anyone actually had their warranty refused??

Please, if you have a response about denied warranty work, post it under the new thread above. This way we can both increase the visibility for that thread / target more responses, AND consolidate our results. Plus, im not in to thread jacking.

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/2013Warranty.pdf

Has anyone actually read their warranty?

Please pay close attention to the arbitration process near the end.

What about third party warranties? would this scenario most likely benefit one of us or benefit Ford if a conflict arises.

Which would be more likely to try and deny a claim?

Quote from: DRII on May 21, 2014, 04:04:17 PM
What about third party warranties? would this scenario most likely benefit one of us or benefit Ford if a conflict arises.

Which would be more likely to try and deny a claim?

I wouldn't touch a 3rd party warranty with a ten foot pole. There are only a couple that are worth a crap.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on May 21, 2014, 04:08:45 PM

Quote from: DRII on May 21, 2014, 04:04:17 PM
What about third party warranties? would this scenario most likely benefit one of us or benefit Ford if a conflict arises.

Which would be more likely to try and deny a claim?

I wouldn't touch a 3rd party warranty with a ten foot pole. There are only a couple that are worth a crap.

Well, I brought my MKS from a Lexus dealership. Obviously they couldn't offer it as cpo, so they threw in a platinum extended warranty to get me to buy from them. It's essentially the same as Toyota, Lexus extended warranty through their Fidelity group.

The next day I went to a Lincoln dealer and asked the service manager if Fidelity was any good,  and he said absolutely. They honored one repair,  spark plug coil failure, so far with no problem...

presently working with my dealer on tranny issue under powertrain warranty without any issue. i have not tuned but have done cai, dp, & catbacks.
mikev

As for DPs, or other free flowing exhaust mods causing over boosting conditions, they certainly can. Even though you're not manipulating wastegates, you're increasing flow and reducing restriction.
Spiking and creeping are both symptoms of turbo back exhaust mods, or cat deleting. As OE tuning isn't optimized by adjusting wastegate duty cycle tables, the gates/control circuit can be be overwhelmed by pressure. This is, of course, a much larger problem with internally regulated turbos. A tuning solution pairs nicely with cat deleting, and often solves the issue.

The best solution for the warranty issue is simply to find the right dealer. I had a buddy technician at an area Mazda dealer, and made friends with the service advisors and manager. The tech would simply "overlook" modifications. I was able to get tons of warranty work done this way. One or more local Mazda community members even had new engines installed, compliments of this service department. Some dealers are friendly. However, it may also hinge on how heavily scrutinized dealers are by the manufacturer. For Mazda, back then, it was simply a tech line they called for support, and it was easy as saying "no/none"  when prompted about modifications.

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