June 19, 2019, 07:58:52 PM
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Author Topic: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1  (Read 2271 times)

Offline MiWiAu

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2019, 09:00:13 AM »
you are paying out of pocket, no such thing as a core charge.  they may give you a refund if you let them keep the old parts, IDK, you would have to ask.




Well, sheeeeit! Iím totally saving up for a dragon, now! This would be awesome in my front yard!


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2013 XSport

Offline ebutler92

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2019, 09:03:18 AM »
This is my first ecoboost. Hopefully the issues donít continue.


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Offline MiWiAu

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2019, 09:40:36 AM »
This is my first ecoboost. Hopefully the issues donít continue.


I know you have ESP, but in case you (or future non-ESP victims) are curious, I've attached the estimate for the repair, which includes water pump replacement.

Note the (IMO) excessively high labor rate for the work: 16 hours @ $147.38/hr. I hadn't done the simple math on labor before authorizing the repair and was flabbergasted when I actually ran the calculation. I called the dealer this AM and asked them point-blank their shop labor rate, and was told $128.95. I then revealed who I was and my confusion around the $147.38/hr price on my service estimate. They put me on hold for a while then came back and said that they use grid pricing which essentially increase rates as job "complexity" goes up, hence the high labor charge. They did say, though, they would honor the $128.95/hr for the repair, and I'll take any help I can get at this point.

Does anybody happen to know if grid pricing is standard practice in the Ford dealer service world, or does each dealer set their pricing strategy independently? I think I've heard on this forum that the Lincoln dealers tend to offer a better overall experience. I found a stand alone Lincoln Black Label dealer not too far out of the way, and I'm thinking about taking future dealer service encounters to them.

2013 XSport

Offline MiWiAu

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Re: Rpm surging and engine shuttering during light acceleration
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2019, 10:07:12 AM »
My 2014 Explorer sport has come up with an issue. Ithe other day I noticed a stutter/engine shake during light acceleration under load. Shortly after during my drive an engine light came on and I scanned it resulting in a P00016 code. I immediately replaced the specified cam sensor that my reader recommended and cleared the light. Upon driving after replacement, the light hasnít come back but the stuttering/shaking continues. Research is showing a possible timing chain issue. Any insight?

I mentioned this in my other thread that Z linked above, but in case someone stops on this one and goes no further...

You mentioned in the other thread that you also smell a burning oil smell, which prompted you to buy an OCC. I wonder if the oil smell + the stuttering/shaking might be indicative of pending PTU failure. When they leak, the oil often drips on the the exhaust causing the burning smell.

The stuttering may be related to the P0016/timing issue, or it could be that there happen to be two different failures occurring in parallel. :(
2013 XSport

Offline MiWiAu

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2019, 10:10:55 AM »
Iíve also ordered a catch can for mine.


Side note, I'm not sure which OCC kit you ordered, but I did a write-up a while back for my 2013 that may or may not be a useful install reference: https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=6716.15
2013 XSport

Offline ebutler92

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2019, 10:16:26 AM »
Ordered a upr setup


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Offline SHOdded

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2019, 01:27:23 PM »
Have never seen this tiered pricing before.  U figure if they are using book rate, there is no need for tiered pricing.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline MiWiAu

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2019, 01:34:54 PM »
Have never seen this tiered pricing before.  U figure if they are using book rate, there is no need for tiered pricing.

One would think so, which peeves me even more, now that I have a rough idea of what they were doing.

I had never heard of it either, and there's not much out there on it. This is the best explanation I could find, and it's not very good: https://www.simple-car-answers.com/Grid-Pricing-Matrix.html

Basically, it appears that they start with a "standard rate", and for every additional hour over the first an additional ~1% is added to the hourly rate. The thought being (per the link above) that the more challenging jobs take more time and somehow justify a higher rate because they are more complex.

In my case, a 16 hour job is 15 hours over the standard 1 hour rate of $128.95. The job is so complex that challenging that the dealer deserves more pay to execute, so rate sees a approximately 15% surcharge. $128.95 + 15% surcharge = $148.29/hr (which is pretty close to the $147.38/hr in my original quote, probably off because it's not exactly 1% per extra hour). How sleazy is that?

I don't personally don't agree with this tactic, and I'll be sure I don't sign off on any future service under this pricing structure. Tell me time and tell me rate.
2013 XSport

Offline ZSHO

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2019, 04:11:13 PM »
That's almost Flat rate per hour! Dunno! I would highly suggest visiting a local Lincoln dealer for future reference IMHO and hoping they get her running to like new status once again. Z
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 04:38:32 PM by ZSHO »


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Offline ZSHO

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2019, 04:29:53 PM »
FYI- Both Topics started by MiWiAu and ebutler92 were merged together.TIA. Z  :)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 04:32:54 PM by ZSHO »


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|Airaid-Dry-flow-CAI|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline Sabtaj1

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2019, 03:25:23 AM »
I just did my Flex recently.  Actually not a bad job to do at all.  It took me about 8 hours start to finish.  We dont have the phaser issues like the f150 so those should be fine.  Just need the chain, both large tensioners, and only the one small one located towards the front of the car up top, a new tensioner part that you pull pin and it puts pressure on the chain (brain fart), new crank pulley bolt, vct solenoid gaskets, intake gaskets, the ford sealant recommended for cover, O ring for where coolant attaches to bottom of intake and I would change water pump while in there.  Its quite simple and does not require many tools at all.  Just time and the cam alignment plates.  Which I purchased... And a Chrysler style pulley puller that you can barrow from autozone.  I was quoted 1600-1700 just in labor through the local ford dealer.  All in all I think I did mine for $500 or so plus my time.

Ps.  My chain was stretched bad.  I used to work at the local ford dealer like 20 years ago.  They had recently had a newer f150 that had 25k miles and had to have the chain replaced for being stretched. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 03:35:05 AM by Sabtaj1 »
13 Eco flex.

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Offline MiWiAu

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2019, 08:55:31 AM »
TL/DR: Fixed, but not really.

Dealer called yesterday afternoon and said the Explorer was ready to be picked up. I had my wife's car at work, so I stopped by the dealership on my way home to settle-up and get the keys. Total bill after tax was $3158.62. They dropped the $99 inspection cost and reduced the hourly rate to their "standard" $129.95 instead of the $147ish I was originally quoted.

Repair documentation indicates they completed the timing chain repair, the carbon monoxide recall repair, and confirmed everything was operational with a 6 mile test drive.

Fast forward to this AM. My wife dropped me off at the dealer at 7:20AM, so I could get the Explorer and drive myself to work. Pulled out to the stop light, got a green left arrow and proceeded through the intersection to the sound of a massive boost leak and no power.

Pulled a u-turn at the next intersection and dropped it back off at the dealer. Took the complimentary shuttle to work this morning, and now waiting on another call that it's actually fixed. Not sure how they missed that on the test drive. All the electronics and HVAC was powered down when I started it this morning, and I heard the leak over the sound of my heater blasting and the radio on.

 :blowup:

On the plus side, no P0016 code in the 6.2 mile drive since the repair.
2013 XSport

Offline SHOdded

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2019, 09:25:46 AM »
Prob forgot to reconnect a hose or two/secure it properly. Very common after major repairs.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline MiWiAu

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2019, 09:35:39 AM »
Prob forgot to reconnect a hose or two/secure it properly. Very common after major repairs.

I figured. Just surprised it wasnít caught during the test drive. I heard it immediately, so I suspect it was loose before I picked it up. Ohhh well.

SA called about 5 mins ago and said they got it fixed. Waiting on the shuttle now.

Side note: I saw a small box of parts on the floor mat in my back seat. Not sure what all is in there yet, but will get an inventory when I get home tonight. :)


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2013 XSport

Offline MiWiAu

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Re: 2013 XSport - DTC P0016 - Camshaft Position Correlation, Bank 1
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2019, 10:21:55 AM »
Round 2. Better, but still a slight leak under hard acceleration, but substantially better than before. I called the SA and notified him. I'm going to drive it home tonight and reinstall the hoses from the BOVs to the charge pipes, so all the air noises are eliminated at let-off.

If they are doing short on/off acceleration pulls through town and obeying speed limits, the BOVs might be masking the leak, which gets worse under prolonged acceleration as the turbos spool up.

I told them I wanted to take a tech and/or service advisor out tomorrow morning, to confirm they are hearing what I am hearing.  :devil: Muahahahahaha! Shake 'n Bake!
2013 XSport

 

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