E85 injection

AJP turbo · August 04, 2017, 09:41:03 PM

Was thinking of this lately. I'm not sure what you guys are paying for a gallon of good meth juice for your meth kits. But would filling your reservoirs with E85 be a decent option?

It would give a nice bump in octane. And give some cooling effect of the aircharge...Probably not as much as Meth as I think that liquid remains cooler than ambient I think?

Poor mans meth kit?

StealBlueSho · August 04, 2017, 09:42:31 PM

The pumps for the meth kits are not rated for petroleum products. It will cause failure really fast. Would need a different pump....

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StealBlueSho · August 04, 2017, 09:43:48 PM

I should shoot you a log from the track last night... M1 meth will get you lower than ambient with the LMS tune.

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AJP turbo · August 04, 2017, 09:51:06 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 09:42:31 PM
The pumps for the meth kits are not rated for petroleum products. It will cause failure really fast. Would need a different pump....

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Ah ok...I didn't know Methanol and Ethanol were terribly different from a corrosiveness standpoint.

AJP turbo · August 04, 2017, 09:54:09 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
I should shoot you a log from the track last night... M1 meth will get you lower than ambient with the LMS tune.

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Yeah I could see that with any tune if you wanted to dump enough meth at it....I've seen people doubt getting cooling below ambient but I thought there is some chemical properties or something that make certain liquids be cooler than ambient in certain atmospheres.

StealBlueSho · August 04, 2017, 09:54:56 PM

Now... could we get a small fuel pump that we could wire up to an Alky PAC so we can control the flow... sure... could be fun... what's a small fuel pump? Something off a bike maybe?

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AJP turbo · August 04, 2017, 10:01:23 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 09:54:56 PM
Now... could we get a small fuel pump that we could wire up to an Alky PAC so we can control the flow... sure... could be fun... what's a small fuel pump? Something off a bike maybe?

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I would think a good old Walbro 255lph would be fine....They are super reliable but I'm not sure that's the right kind of pump...Like gerotor pumps or if that's even the type in the meth kits

StealBlueSho · August 04, 2017, 10:32:14 PM

Quote from: AJP turbo on August 04, 2017, 09:54:09 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
I should shoot you a log from the track last night... M1 meth will get you lower than ambient with the LMS tune.

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Yeah I could see that with any tune if you wanted to dump enough meth at it....I've seen people doubt getting cooling below ambient but I thought there is some chemical properties or something that make certain liquids be cooler than ambient in certain atmospheres.

I was gonna type it up but this guy explains it fairly well without getting all technical...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1v5c8y/can_evaporationsweating_cool_you_down_below_the/

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StealBlueSho · August 04, 2017, 10:34:42 PM

The real answer is that the actual IATs most likely don't get near as cool as what your MAP sensor is seeing. The added "octane" of meth makes it so you don't detonate.

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AJP turbo · August 04, 2017, 10:51:28 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 10:34:42 PM
The real answer is that the actual IATs most likely don't get near as cool as what your MAP sensor is seeing. The added "octane" of meth makes it so you don't detonate.

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I'm not sure what you mean?
The cooler IAT would just command more spark or not request the reduction that rising temps requires.

There are 4 temp sensors for the 3.5 ecoboost...
ambient air temp
intake air temp(airbox)
pre throttle body(TIP sensor)
MAP sensor(IAT2)

StealBlueSho · August 04, 2017, 11:15:03 PM

The mist from the meth coats the IAT2 sensor... then when the air blows by it, it gets cooled down... whether the total temp of the air is that cool I dunno... but the sensor is cooled down.

Being as that's the only sensor getting the meth treatment, is IAT2 the one driving IAT compensation for spark? My guess is yes.

See where I am going with this? Every meth kit dealer I have spoken too says tune meth to prevent knock and not for cooler IATs...

The cooler IATs is a by product of spraying to prevent detonation.

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AJP turbo · August 04, 2017, 11:37:55 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 11:15:03 PM

Being as that's the only sensor getting the meth treatment, is IAT2 the one driving IAT compensation for spark? My guess is yes.

Every meth kit dealer I have spoken too says tune meth to prevent knock and not for cooler IATs...

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I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve.....If the spark was over advanced and you needed to dump meth to mitigate knock to the point that you were spraying so much it choked out the engine then I wouldn't do that and tune via meth volume

In this case if I was spraying meth in the SHO I'd spray enough meth to get the charge temps closer to 100 degrees that way you wouldn't get any spark retard from IAT comps and coincidentally that would be just enough meth to give the octane needed to approach MBT spark levels which is all you really need.

AJP turbo · August 04, 2017, 11:39:43 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 11:15:03 PM

The cooler IATs is a by product of spraying to prevent detonation.

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But cooler IAT's do prevent detonation and pre-ignition.

So I think we are kinda talking the same thing but I know what you mean.

FoMoCoSHO · August 05, 2017, 11:53:19 AM

Quote from: AJP turbo on August 04, 2017, 09:51:06 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on August 04, 2017, 09:42:31 PM
The pumps for the meth kits are not rated for petroleum products. It will cause failure really fast. Would need a different pump....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah ok...I didn't know Methanol and Ethanol were terribly different from a corrosiveness standpoint.

Meth is quite a bit more corrosive than ethanol and even more compared to gas. Gas has plenty of additives for lubricity which meth has none. So I'm curious why a pump would fail with 15% gas but not meth.

Theres always E98, E100, or even some good old rubbing alcohol.

EcoPowerParts · August 05, 2017, 12:59:13 PM

You'd be better suited buying the 1 gallon nitrous fuel cell and plumbing up an aux fuel system like I did originally but maybe with a single injector spacer plate to be "cheap". That being said cheap and fueling should never go together....
I wouldn't trust a dry manifold to evenly flow fuel between the cylinders, that's why I did the bungs and injectors. Until the DI pump is proven out it still looks like the way to go for fueling BUT kind of a waste because at 500HP+ the drivetrain just goes to crap.
Fix the transmission/PTU issues first, IMHO.
If you're determined to see test the longevity of your transmission, get some VP import and make a tune for the track.