PIR race day #2, trying again to get into a 12..

SHOwoosh · May 27, 2017, 04:01:44 AM

i'm curious as to why your ambient temp reading was 104 all through the last run then dropped to 80 right after and also almost no spark advance. I have no answers but wish ya the best of luck getting it figured out.

SHOdded · May 27, 2017, 05:20:05 AM

Maybe run through all maintenance checks first - fluids, turbo piping, wastegates & BOVs, intercooler, spark plugs. There was no waterbox at PIR, right, and if so you were avoiding it?

Night Hawk · May 27, 2017, 09:01:44 AM

I went through the same thing one night up at New England drag way, I was ready to throw my helmet into the woods and have a full blown Planes trains and automobile Steve Martin runway meltdown. It ended up being something as simple as the vacuum line that connects to the turbo charge pipes had blown off. ( gave zero symptoms ran fine). Reconnected the line, put on a clamp to hold it. Whala my times dropped like a stone and my mph jumped. Hope this helps. ---Hawk

Night Hawk · May 27, 2017, 09:06:33 AM

If you look at the front blow off valve, its the vacuum line that connects to the charge pipe just north of it.

SHOdded · May 27, 2017, 10:57:38 AM

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4872

Josephm · May 27, 2017, 11:14:11 AM

What was your MPH? You have a boost leak, or something else is wrong. My flex just east of you ran a 14.4, stock. I hot lap my flex in hotter weather than PIR, and I've never seen that much of a deviation in what your time should be or lack of power. Did you have your hood up in the staging lanes? I hope you did not get bad gas before going to the track.

TopherSho · May 27, 2017, 12:12:31 PM

1st run was 103mph..

After that slower and slower and slower and hotter and hotter.. it was 95f at PIR, the lanes were warmer.

it was just pure heat issues. on the way home it felt fine once the IAT2 was under 100 and the power picked right back up.

i did a test run of the current tune build the day before and it was within normal (12.98 to 105mph) with a IAT of 90..

This car just can't run hot.

it dropped my 60ft to 2.1+ on a few runs, where i was getting 1.9x on the previous trip a few weeks ealier.

if it had not been for the previous trip where i ran 13.09 and 13.1 all evening (60ish-degrees out) i would agree that there might be a mechanical issue. but i also have datalogs with 12.66, 12.7x, 12.8x and 12.9x runs to 105mph so i know the boost is fine. knock was not bad either.... it is pure spark loss from heat.

sigh

i will do a datalog sometime later with cool IAT's .. just to check that it is still putting out in normal circumstances.

slips attached

TopherSho · May 27, 2017, 02:24:43 PM

How important is this splash shield? are other drag-racers pulling it off on race day ??

I can now understand why these engines do not cool off at all. that splash shield covers the full engine bay, not just part of the block.

and the rock pelted air conditioning condenser cant be helping air flow much either.

so disappointed.

StealBlueSho · May 27, 2017, 02:53:17 PM

OK.....

I looked at your logs... I cannot see anything wrong with your logs... they all look very clean... HOWEVER... this is what I can notice...

-Your IAT's were through the roof... 170+ which will cause the ECU to pull quite a bit of spark...

-DA for the track that day was 1600+ at 3pm but was down to 1000+ by 9:50pm.. this directly effects E/Ts... ask the guys in Arizona and Denver...

-Your "Heavy" brake boost was launching at ~1600rpms... most guys get best results at launching around ~2000rpms..

-You shouldn't need to brake boost for 25+ seconds... it appears you were holding it for a very long time.. small turbos.. spool almost instantly..

-When you switched tunes at the track, your Octane Adjust Ratio dropped went to 0... what the means, is the ECU was not adding ANY additional spark to take advantage of the 93 octane... it takes a small amount of driving around to get your OAR to -1 (or -.96 if using SCTx4) which lets the ECU add a BUNCH more spark which makes a large difference...

Between the IATs, DA, Temp, the low launch RPMS, and switching up your tune without allowing the ECU to adjust to it... I am not surprised at your times..

StealBlueSho · May 27, 2017, 02:56:30 PM

Also, read through this... it has a lot of good information for getting better times at the track... don't be discouraged... live, learn, and make adjustments...

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,1239.0.html

StealBlueSho · May 27, 2017, 02:59:55 PM

Quote from: lamrith on May 27, 2017, 12:40:43 AM
Well log #4 just a quick skim. I can't reall offer any solution and am new at this myself but a few things caught my attention..
Your IAT never got under 143*, so that will kill spark from what AJP has told us, end of run it was over 150.
You started getting KR at top of 2nd and carried thru rest of the run, topping out @ 3.
I did the math and you 0-60 was 6.19sec. Were you spinning tires? was TC off, or was it kicking in? This is slow 0-60 given your mods and dyno results, almost a second slower than the SHO is rated at in stock trim which makes me wonder about traction or nannies being involved.

Going to skim the 1st run logs now.

There is no KR in any of his runs... the NEGATIVE NUMBERS ARE GOOD.. it means it trying to add more spark... POSITIVE NUMBERS ARE BAD... that means the knock sensor is pulling timing since its picking up knock conditions...

TopherSho · May 27, 2017, 03:06:03 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 27, 2017, 02:53:17 PM
OK.....

I looked at your logs... I cannot see anything wrong with your logs... they all look very clean... HOWEVER... this is what I can notice...

-Your IAT's were through the roof... 170+ which will cause the ECU to pull quite a bit of spark...

-DA for the track that day was 1600+ at 3pm but was down to 1000+ by 9:50pm.. this directly effects E/Ts... ask the guys in Arizona and Denver...

-Your "Heavy" brake boost was launching at ~1600rpms... most guys get best results at launching around ~2000rpms..

-You shouldn't need to brake boost for 25+ seconds... it appears you were holding it for a very long time.. small turbos.. spool almost instantly..

-When you switched tunes at the track, your Octane Adjust Ratio dropped went to 0... what the means, is the ECU was not adding ANY additional spark to take advantage of the 93 octane... it takes a small amount of driving around to get your OAR to -1 (or -.96 if using SCTx4) which lets the ECU add a BUNCH more spark which makes a large difference...

Between the IATs, DA, the low launch RPMS, and switching up your tune without allowing the ECU to adjust to it... I am not surprised at your times..

Yeah, heat was the issue all night. the 1st runs were all on the same tune and it was still very low.

i think though i might disagree on the hard 2k launches. I have determined with datlogs the fastest times i make to 105mph were with 1200-1500 launches. if i launch at 2k my times drop to 13.5... if i launch low i get much better times to 105mph.

heck my best time last night was with no launch at all winning versus a track prepped wrx (std not sti).

i think it is the inability to loose heat.

it pisses me off quite a bit that this package is so ####ing air tight bundled up.

i really think i should not have to go to spray to make good times. i have seen others make great times without it and im frustrated.

and only getting to run 7-8 times in 5+ hours really is not racing.

man im pissed at this situation. 1st world issues ..

TopherSho · May 27, 2017, 03:09:47 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 27, 2017, 02:59:55 PM
Quote from: lamrith on May 27, 2017, 12:40:43 AM
Well log #4 just a quick skim. I can't reall offer any solution and am new at this myself but a few things caught my attention..
Your IAT never got under 143*, so that will kill spark from what AJP has told us, end of run it was over 150.
You started getting KR at top of 2nd and carried thru rest of the run, topping out @ 3.
I did the math and you 0-60 was 6.19sec. Were you spinning tires? was TC off, or was it kicking in? This is slow 0-60 given your mods and dyno results, almost a second slower than the SHO is rated at in stock trim which makes me wonder about traction or nannies being involved.

Going to skim the 1st run logs now.

There is no KR in any of his runs... the NEGATIVE NUMBERS ARE GOOD.. it means it trying to add more spark... POSITIVE NUMBERS ARE BAD... that means the knock sensor is pulling timing since its picking up knock conditions...

yeah i saw that.. then i saw the spark advance was WAY lower than i am used to. in my best runs on datalogs it held 15.x and 16.x AVERAGE from start to end of runs. this is when i also found launching low was better for *this* specific car.

i clearly did not do enough research on this platform. i am going to need spray if i ever plan on summer drag racing.

pisses me off.

ok signing off .. going to coast. i'm getting to worked up and need to check myself

i will check back and see if anyone thinks removing the splash shield is stupid ..

StealBlueSho · May 27, 2017, 03:13:45 PM

Quote from: TopherSho on May 27, 2017, 03:09:47 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 27, 2017, 02:59:55 PM
Quote from: lamrith on May 27, 2017, 12:40:43 AM
Well log #4 just a quick skim. I can't reall offer any solution and am new at this myself but a few things caught my attention..
Your IAT never got under 143*, so that will kill spark from what AJP has told us, end of run it was over 150.
You started getting KR at top of 2nd and carried thru rest of the run, topping out @ 3.
I did the math and you 0-60 was 6.19sec. Were you spinning tires? was TC off, or was it kicking in? This is slow 0-60 given your mods and dyno results, almost a second slower than the SHO is rated at in stock trim which makes me wonder about traction or nannies being involved.

Going to skim the 1st run logs now.

There is no KR in any of his runs... the NEGATIVE NUMBERS ARE GOOD.. it means it trying to add more spark... POSITIVE NUMBERS ARE BAD... that means the knock sensor is pulling timing since its picking up knock conditions...

yeah i saw that.. then i saw the spark advance was WAY lower than i am used to. in my best runs on datalogs it held 15.x and 16.x AVERAGE from start to ed of runs. this is whan i also found launching low was better for *this* specific car.

Spark advance was lower due to IAT heat compensation... then you compounded the problem by reflashing...

My best 0-60s are always around 1900 rpm launches...

lamrith · May 27, 2017, 03:19:38 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on May 27, 2017, 02:59:55 PM
Quote from: lamrith on May 27, 2017, 12:40:43 AM
Well log #4 just a quick skim. I can't reall offer any solution and am new at this myself but a few things caught my attention..
Your IAT never got under 143*, so that will kill spark from what AJP has told us, end of run it was over 150.
You started getting KR at top of 2nd and carried thru rest of the run, topping out @ 3.
I did the math and you 0-60 was 6.19sec. Were you spinning tires? was TC off, or was it kicking in? This is slow 0-60 given your mods and dyno results, almost a second slower than the SHO is rated at in stock trim which makes me wonder about traction or nannies being involved.

Going to skim the 1st run logs now.

There is no KR in any of his runs... the NEGATIVE NUMBERS ARE GOOD.. it means it trying to add more spark... POSITIVE NUMBERS ARE BAD... that means the knock sensor is pulling timing since its picking up knock conditions...

Ahhh Thanks for the clarification!