PIR race day #2, trying again to get into a 12..

[TopherSho]

Did you have your hood popped in the staging lanes?

Do you have the "Engine Cover / Heat blanket" still in place?

30 lbs pressure in the fronts
45 pounds pressure in the backs
no engine cover.. (removed day 1)
no rubber strips on the back of the hood or the front, (removed day 2)
clean 92 gas from my favorite station that has me data logging 12.7 to 105mph
no wheel hop
no wheel spin
no chirp (you could feel it being sluggish)
brake boosted to 1600-- ran WAY slow
brake boosted to 1200 (my best runs to 105 mph are here)-- ran slightly better
no brake --boost best run of night...
hood popped at end of the run before exciting the track to push 80mph winds into the bay
up to 30 minutes engine off hood full up
only ran 8 times (only logged 7) in a total of 5.5 hours.

it was just too hot.  it was 101 on the dash in the lanes,  the IAT NEVER went under 140f the entire time i was there.

i have given up on this night.  i need to data log a run today and see if the power is *just gone* and there is a bigger issue. but i felt it feel much stronger on the ride home where i could push the IAT down with freeway wind for 20 minutes.

but if the power is back to normal as i expect, then my car hates the heat to the Nth degree (see what i did there)

stupid meth..

I have drag raced tons before.. at least 200 runs over the last 3 years with co-workers.  i can drag like a mofo,  the car however does not like dragging with high temps. 

[Brucelinc]

I may be missing something since I really don't know how to read the logs.  However, if I am following this thread correctly,  Topher was running mid 13s to low 14s, the DA was under 2500 and the ambient temp was in the 90s.   

No doubt heat plays a role.  However, it seems like there is more to it than that in this case.   I would run maybe 2-3 tenths slower in high DA, high heat conditions but never a full second like we are seeing here.   I am NOT blaming the tune at all but I wonder if there is some other issue going on here. 

By the way, since heat rises, I don't think the bottom areo-shield has much if any impact on IATs.  The benefit of a smoother underbelly would certainly outweigh any negatives.  The key is letting the hot air out the top and Topher was doing all the right things for that.

[lamrith]

Today would be the optimal type of day for us to race our SHO up here in the PNW.

SIR/Pacific raceways is 52* and -66DA, Portland is 56* and -156DA.  Sun will come out later and warm up the track, just need to be there in the morning and start running soon as the lanes open and before the pavement get crankin hot at the end of the day. mid-day when track is warmed up some should be good.

[TopherSho]

I may be missing something since I really don't know how to read the logs.  However, if I am following this thread correctly,  Topher was running mid 13s to low 14s, the DA was under 2500 and the ambient temp was in the 90s.   

No doubt heat plays a role.  However, it seems like there is more to it than that in this case.   I would run maybe 2-3 tenths slower in high DA, high heat conditions but never a full second like we are seeing here.   I am NOT blaming the tune at all but I wonder if there is some other issue going on here. 

By the way, since heat rises, I don't think the bottom areo-shield has much if any impact on IATs.  The benefit of a smoother underbelly would certainly outweigh any negatives.  The key is letting the hot air out the top and Topher was doing all the right things for that.

I did opt to drop the splash shield for now.   with air able to flow from the bottom upward i feel it will help with the BLOCKS temps, but not the IAT2 with the hood up and stationary, as well as popping the latch at the end of a run.   I do feel while IAT2 is critical the block and coolant temp play a major role as well.

the extra air flow front into the bay and out the bottom and over the top fo the block will also benefit the temps at speed in the summer and late spring and early fall.

HOWEVER in the winter it will have to go on or risk splashing the turbo housings.  i cant see that going well..

Back on topic.  i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps.   IE they are pulling too much spark,  but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...

[AJP turbo]

Back on topic.  i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps.   IE they are pulling too much spark,  but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...

Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark

So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.

I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.

Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.

now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly

So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.

In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.

I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently

[TopherSho]

Back on topic.  i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps.   IE they are pulling too much spark,  but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...

Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark

So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.

I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.

Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.

now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly

So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.

In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.

I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently

Yeah 'tired' is a weird phrase for me since I just broke 50k miles. I have a handful of logs you and I ran showing it can run high 12's from this spring so don't quite think it's worn out per-say.

But PIR's heat did kill it..  I might have to take off the trim and open the radiator cap and peak inside.. wonder if there is acid damage or corrosion inside.

[Brucelinc]

Bugs and other road debris stuck in the intercooler?  I don't quite understand why heat seems to slow your car down more than other SHOs. 

[TopherSho]

Bugs and other road debris stuck in the intercooler?  I don't quite understand why heat seems to slow your car down more than other SHOs.

my lower AC cooler fins look like the moon, and look like the previous owner power washed the s*** out of it. 

Download the bottom jpg for the full horrifying zoom in ..

[StealBlueSho]

Mine looks the same....

[TopherSho]

Thanks for the photo.  So not helping but not a major thing either ..

[StealBlueSho]

I cleaned it the best I could after this photo...most of the discoloring is from bent fins....

[dubcitySHO]

Topher, have you popped the intercooler to throttle body pipe to see if there is any oil/water build up in your IC?

[lamrith]

Back on topic.  i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps.   IE they are pulling too much spark,  but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...

Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark

So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.

I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.

Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.

now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly

So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.

In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.

I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently

Yeah 'tired' is a weird phrase for me since I just broke 50k miles. I have a handful of logs you and I ran showing it can run high 12's from this spring so don't quite think it's worn out per-say.

But PIR's heat did kill it..  I might have to take off the trim and open the radiator cap and peak inside.. wonder if there is acid damage or corrosion inside.

AJP does not seem to think it is all heat/timing issue and I defer to him and others on that...

BUT, scientific experimentation is half the fun!

Not sure if PIR opens for full day of drag strip at all on weekends?  If not you need to come up this way for a day SIR (Sorry Pacific Raceways, but to old timers it will always be SIR) is open on a weekend!  Just thinking if you run on a cool day or in morning before it gets really hot but as track comes around it will rule in/out that it was all heat related.  Pretty sure Pacific has all day drags coming up in a few weeks, June 10th.  Gates open 7am...

I am also looking strongly at heading to a dyno up here in the future, if you wanted to make a trip up for that.  I found a Shop in Auburn WA that has an AWD Dynojet.

[TopherSho]

I cleaned it the best I could after this photo...most of the discoloring is from bent fins....

I think I will see about replacing it.. i have so many embedded rocks i should gain a tenth on weight loss.

[TopherSho]

Topher, have you popped the intercooler to throttle body pipe to see if there is any oil/water build up in your IC?

no .. i have been avoiding taking the front of the car apart.. i think i should though ..