PIR race day #2, trying again to get into a 12..

[TopherSho]

Back on topic.  i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps.   IE they are pulling too much spark,  but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...

Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark

So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.

I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.

Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.

now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly

So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.

In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.

I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently

Yeah 'tired' is a weird phrase for me since I just broke 50k miles. I have a handful of logs you and I ran showing it can run high 12's from this spring so don't quite think it's worn out per-say.

But PIR's heat did kill it..  I might have to take off the trim and open the radiator cap and peak inside.. wonder if there is acid damage or corrosion inside.

AJP does not seem to think it is all heat/timing issue and I defer to him and others on that...

BUT, scientific experimentation is half the fun!

Not sure if PIR opens for full day of drag strip at all on weekends?  If not you need to come up this way for a day SIR (Sorry Pacific Raceways, but to old timers it will always be SIR) is open on a weekend!  Just thinking if you run on a cool day or in morning before it gets really hot but as track comes around it will rule in/out that it was all heat related.  Pretty sure Pacific has all day drags coming up in a few weeks, June 10th.  Gates open 7am...

I am also looking strongly at heading to a dyno up here in the future, if you wanted to make a trip up for that.  I found a Shop in Auburn WA that has an AWD Dynojet.

PIR only runs the Test-n-Tunes 5pm-11pm,  so only after the heat of the day has hit.   

Hmm might be worth a shot.  we can meet up.    1st let me make sure my car is working right.  I need to make a pass once my adjusted rev-17 tune from AJP soaks in with the new T-stat.   And I want to explore the effects of taking off the splash guard and possibly replacing the Air-HE that is pelted all to crap and looking into the HE for the Turbos.

also plan on clamping a few hoses with c-clamps after seeing pics of a few disconnected tubes ..

*IF* it all lines up,  when would you go ? we can meet up and throw down the track and get slapped by ladies ..

[lamrith]

Back on topic.  i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps.   IE they are pulling too much spark,  but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...

Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark

So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.

I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.

Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.

now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly

So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.

In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.

I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently

Yeah 'tired' is a weird phrase for me since I just broke 50k miles. I have a handful of logs you and I ran showing it can run high 12's from this spring so don't quite think it's worn out per-say.

But PIR's heat did kill it..  I might have to take off the trim and open the radiator cap and peak inside.. wonder if there is acid damage or corrosion inside.

AJP does not seem to think it is all heat/timing issue and I defer to him and others on that...

BUT, scientific experimentation is half the fun!

Not sure if PIR opens for full day of drag strip at all on weekends?  If not you need to come up this way for a day SIR (Sorry Pacific Raceways, but to old timers it will always be SIR) is open on a weekend!  Just thinking if you run on a cool day or in morning before it gets really hot but as track comes around it will rule in/out that it was all heat related.  Pretty sure Pacific has all day drags coming up in a few weeks, June 10th.  Gates open 7am...

I am also looking strongly at heading to a dyno up here in the future, if you wanted to make a trip up for that.  I found a Shop in Auburn WA that has an AWD Dynojet.

PIR only runs the Test-n-Tunes 5pm-11pm,  so only after the heat of the day has hit.   

Hmm might be worth a shot.  we can meet up.    1st let me make sure my car is working right.  I need to make a pass once my adjusted rev-17 tune from AJP soaks in with the new T-stat.   And I want to explore the effects of taking off the splash guard and possibly replacing the Air-HE that is pelted all to crap and looking into the HE for the Turbos.

also plan on clamping a few hoses with c-clamps after seeing pics of a few disconnected tubes ..

*IF* it all lines up,  when would you go ? we can meet up and throw down the track and get slapped by ladies ..

WOW, rev17.  He is obviously workin it for you trying to get you dialed in!

I just looked at PIR's schedule out thru Aug and they have nothing but night races for the dragstrip.  Bummer.

Not put much into the Dyno planning other than finding one, but leaning toward it more now.  I will contact them and find out about availability and pricing.

I have not gone to the track myself as I am not a big dragracer and would have to buy a helmet that I would not use again just to be allowed on the track, plus tech card and race fee. ($10+$40)  Running the 1/4 is more of a curiosity than anything else for me, might see if I can find a helmet to borrow for a track day.

[TopherSho]

Back on topic.  i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps.   IE they are pulling too much spark,  but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...

Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark

So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.

I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.

Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.

now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly

So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.

In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.

I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently

Very detailed info!  Thank you that helps with my understanding.

[TopherSho]

}:(

I have a suspicious sound.  I have swapped back to factory to test later after the daughter is in bed.

But the Internet's might be right...And may be relevant to my wierdness (not personally) in the car.

Random pic...

[dubcitySHO]

Topher, have you popped the intercooler to throttle body pipe to see if there is any oil/water build up in your IC?

no .. i have been avoiding taking the front of the car apart.. i think i should though ..

Checking/cleaning the IC can be done without removing anything except the IC to TB charge pipe.  Def worth taking a look at IMHO.

SHOBoat wrote up an excellent how to:  http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,3056.0.html

[TopherSho]

Well I will definitely do that..

[TopherSho]

Sigh..


Fixed.   It was not coming off..  but It seems it was blowing by when really hot..??

I cinched it up and now it seems 'better'..

When cold it is 'snuggish' but still loose.. When 'hot' it is looser .. but not fall off loose..

Anyway. I cinched it and a few others that did not have clamps and we're feeling better.

Edit wrong pic.. added additional.

[TopherSho]

** Credit to Night hawk and anyone else mentioning checking for boost leaks.. it was not a direct boost leak, but clamping everything on the charge pipe sure seems to have helped..

datalog tomorrow to check times after the rev-17 AJP tune soaks in for another day.  but from the test driver after flashing to stock,  then to rev-17 it seems better, and by better i mean smoother with wheel hop on the 1-2 again. 

[SHOdded]

let's hope for the boost!

[ZSHO]

X2 BOOST &  .Z 
BTW U R actually slowing down your vehicle without having that lower belly pan cover on .Z

[TopherSho]

X2 BOOST &  .Z 
BTW U R actually slowing down your vehicle without having that lower belly pan cover on .Z

I have been thinking on that.  I will look at the datalog I plan on collecting today and see how the 0-70 and 0-100 look. 

If it seems influenced i will put it back after looking at the *possibility* of venting it in the rear of the panel to allow air to push through it (holes, lots of 1/2'' holes) .. it will keep the front shape up front  and contour the air .. but air pushed 'into' the bay will have less resistance getting out. At least that's my half baked theory.   

I also put back the front rubber stripping on the hood for now.

[SHOdded]

Assuming dirt & grime & half of Pebble Beach doesnt end up in the engine bay through the holes LOL.  It's a constant battle getting airflow AND keeping things clean.

[ZSHO]

FWIW I recall my hood vibrating at roughly 80mph because the dealer forgot to install the lower cover and plays an important role in aerodynamic aspect of the vehicle.
The heat is mostly generated towards the rear of the engine so removing the weather stripping on TOP of the cowl cover and Top of the engine would be ideal. Z

[bpd1151]

Functional, engine hood vents, AND hood pins. Works wonders my friends.








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[TopherSho]

FWIW I recall my hood vibrating at roughly 80mph because the dealer forgot to install the lower cover and plays an important role in aerodynamic aspect of the vehicle.
The heat is mostly generated towards the rear of the engine so removing the weather stripping by the cowl cover and top of the engine would be ideal. Z

That bit i did leave off.  

Stupid work getting in the way of testing ...  and stupid Ford.  Seriously? RUBBER hoses on a positively charged source ??   ....