PAO Based Synthetic Motor Oil Options

[SHOdded]

PUP is not the same as Pennzoil Ultra, just to be clear.  BUT again, the key is OCI.  Don't expect it to run to the same intervals as Amsoil Signature, that is the most important note.   At least Amsoil specifies intervals for both normal & severe duty!  So if we take the stated OCI for any other oil cut it to 40% for severe duty, that might be a good yardstick as well.  I only suggest that because Blackstone data is so hard to come by.

If you are going to track the car regulary, your OCI should be on a severe duty interval at the very least.  And, yes, there are some owners who will change the oil and trans fluid after every track day, and the results speak for themselves.

[AnotherGreenFusion]

At the price difference of that version plus its rarity AMSOil still wins out. Then the question comes is it better to go with AMSOil euro spec with the lower TBN and better high temp shear or AMSOIl signature with much better TBN but slightly lower high temp shear. Almost everything else about the two are identical. 


Who else is doing full PAO? I went to synth years ago for the same reasons stated in many of the links here, consistency of results and quality.

[SHOdded]

I will have to take a look, as I have never seen the AMSOIL ES before.  BUT if the shear numbers are only slightly different, and the AMSOIL Sig has much better TBN, I would go with the SIG.  Honestly, both TBN and TAN should be measured for any oil analysis.  But for now TBN is a decent yardstick.

[AnotherGreenFusion]

AMSOil ES


AMSOil Signature

[ZSHO]

AMSOil ES


AMSOil Signature

I dont think its compatible though. Amsoil ES Specs.  5W-30 (AEL): API SN; SM...; ACEA C3; BMW LL-04; Mercedes
Benz 229.51; Volkswagen 504.00, 507.00; Porsche C30; GM
dexos 2™; Chrysler MS-11106   Amsoil Signature series specs.   5W-30 (ASL): API SN (Resource Conserving), SM...; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4...; ACEA A5/B5, A1/B1; Honda HTO-06; Ford WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C929-A; Chrysler MS-6395; GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M) Fortified with detergents that exceed dexos1™ sulfated ash specifications.  BTW IMO there is two much Zinc on the ES .Z

[AnotherGreenFusion]

Excellent, thank you!

Also, thanks for putting up with my ignorant questions. I used to run HDD in my old cars but that was clearly insufficient for these engines, I went eurospec mainly because in some of my reading it was preferred for DI setups. I will give signature a try in the next oil change, it is a bit cheaper anyway.

[SHOdded]

Here's an article on High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity from Driven Racing Oil (more popularly seen as Joe Gibbs Racing Oil):
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/training-center/latest-tech-bulletins/hths-tech-bulletin-september-2012/

ASTM D5481 - 13
Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity at High-Temperature and High-Shear Rate by Multicell Capillary Viscometer
http://www.astm.org/Standards/D5481.htm

Significance and Use

5.1 Viscosity is an important property of fluid lubricants. The viscosity of all fluids varies with temperature. Many common petroleum lubricants are non-Newtonian: their viscosity also varies with shear rate. The usefulness of the viscosity of lubricants is greatest when the viscosity is measured at or near the conditions of shear rate and temperature that the lubricants will experience in service.

5.2 The conditions of shear rate and temperature of this test method are thought to be representative of those in the bearing of automotive engines in severe service.

5.3 Many equipment manufacturers and lubricant specifications require a minimum high-temperature high-shear viscosity at 150 °C and 106 s−1. The shear rate in capillary viscometers varies across the radius of the capillary. The apparent shear rate at the wall for this test method is increased to compensate for the variable shear rate.3

5.4 This test was evaluated in an ASTM cooperative program.6
1. Scope

1.1 This test method covers the laboratory determination of high-temperature high-shear (HTHS) viscosity of engine oils at a temperature of 150 °C using a multicell capillary viscometer containing pressure, temperature, and timing instrumentation. The shear rate for this test method corresponds to an apparent shear rate at the wall of 1.4 million reciprocal seconds (1.4 × 10 6 s−1).3 This shear rate has been found to decrease the discrepancy between this test method and other high-temperature high-shear test methods3 (Test Methods D4683 and D4741) used for engine oil specifications. Viscosities are determined directly from calibrations that have been established with Newtonian oils with nominal viscosities from 1.4 mPa·s to 5.0 mPa·s at 150 °C. The precision has only been determined for the viscosity range 1.45 mPa·s and 5.05 mPa·s at 150 °C for the materials listed in the precision section.

1.2 The values stated in SI units are to be regarded as standard. No other units of measurement are included in this standard.

1.2.1 The centiPoise (cP) is a non-SI metric unit of viscosity that is numerically equal to the milliPascal-second (mPa·s).

1.2.2 Pounds per square inch (psi) is a non-SI unit of pressure that is approximately equal to 6.895 kPa. These units are provided for information only in 6.1.1, 7.3, 9.1.2.1, and the tables.

1.3 This standard does not purport to address all of the safety concerns, if any, associated with its use. It is the responsibility of the user of this standard to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.

AMSOIL may be using a mix of Group IV & V oils in its' signature line formulation (both true synthetics), or so an article implied.

[SHOdded]

Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Mixture of Polyalphaolefins (ed:  PAOs) and additives.

Pennzoil Platinum SAE 5W-20 Full Synthetic Motor Oil
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon, polyalphaolefins (ed:  Group III & IV most likely) and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains <3% (w/w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.

[sholxgt]

Thanks SHOdded!

This one looks promising as a potential good choice...
http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/ls30-synthetic-5w-149html/

It's designed for GM's LS series engines, but looks to meet the right criteria for us as well.  I have added Driven Racing as a true PAO option in the first post based on their data sheets.  I don't think I should add Pennzoil Ultra as it seems to be going away?

It also looks like Royal Purple needs to come off of the list.  It appears they have also dumbed down their recipe to now include petroleum base stock...
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/assets/sds/ROYAL%20PURPLE%20MOTOR%20OIL%205W30_MO5W30GF5_SN_US%20GHS_ENG.pdf

[AnotherGreenFusion]

Nice, interesting PDF from that site:  http://www.drivenracingoil.com/docs/dro/RacingOil101.pdf


Has some more info on zinc content.


Case of 12 qts of LS30 is cheapest so far at 10.79 per quart.

[SHOdded]

I would always advise talking to them first to see if their products suit your needs.  They say "Racing Oils" in their name, so you should be clear in your mind for your application what to expect for performance, OCI, etc.

I know some of our fastest SHOs are running Royal Purple oil, not sure whether it's the regular or the HPS version, as an FYI.  The MSDS says
"Base Oil (synthetic) — Synthetic additives with iso-paraffinic diluents."

http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/chem-english/brands/hydrocarbon-oxygenated-fluids-products-isopar.aspx?ln=productsservices

Isopar™ isoparaffinic fluids

Isopar fluids are high-purity synthetic isoparaffins with consistent and uniform quality, thanks to selected feedstocks and controlled manufacturing processes. They are produced at world-class plants, delivering one of the narrowest boiling ranges for hydrocarbon fluids.

The purity of Isopar fluids grades, combined with an array of technical attributes, offers end-use benefits for both industrial processes and consumer applications.

Attributes and benefits 
•Essentially odorless, improving comfort for both workers and end users
•Narrow boiling ranges for optimal combination of flash point and drying time
•Extremely low aromatic content to minimize risks from exposure
•Compatible with most packaging materials
•High chemical stability for good end-product shelf life
•Low freeze point
•Low electrical conductivity
•Low surface tension for superior wetting and surface spreading

[AnotherGreenFusion]

There is a bunch of what seems like breathless marketing but they also talk about their process some. It appears unique but other than doing specific blends how special is the process really?


Does not sound like it starts with PAO base stock though.



http://bndautomotive.com/quantumblue-products-2/

[ZSHO]

IMO would focus on the lowest NOACK Number on all the above mentioned oil's best for GTDI engines/applications because it will reduce oil consumption and help keep the PCV system and intake valves clean.....Another factor to consider when choosing motor oil is how it may contribute to intake valve deposits. This has become a major issue on many late model Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) engines and Oil drawn into the intake manifold through the PCV system combined with any oil that gets past the valve guides can oxidize and form deposits on the valves. Over time, this can interfere with airflow and cause performance problems and even misfires,just a couple of specifications you might want to consider before determining the right oil that fits your driving needs/habits.  Z

[sholxgt]

The Driven Racing oil listed above is oil for street use.  I agree about the need to find the correct type of oil.  For most of us, that means an API oil.  I believe that LS30 is an API oil, but it would be worth a call to make sure.

The Royal Purple data sheet I see has Petroleum listed as it's first ingredient.  Even for the HPS...
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/assets/sds/HPS%20MOTOR%20OIL%205W30_HPS_MO5W30HPSAC_US%20GHS_ENG.pdf

Just spoke with a friend of mine that runs Royal Purple in his Lightning.  He is positive that Royal Purple used to be strictly PAO based.

For me a lot of this comes down to cost.  I don't want to pay $8, 9, 10/quart for something that couldn't even be called synthetic in the rest of the world.  Now, if the price is right.  Fine. 

[SHOdded]

Staying competitive is tough.  Probably why Amsoil has 3 lines/grades of motor oil.  Royal Purple's best tech is Synerlec at the moment.