New non meth record????

[sholxgt]

I have been pondering this, but still don't understand.

Can we just mix ethanol into our tank and do nothing with the tune?  I didn't think our cars were flex fuel capable.  Can I just add E85 and go faster?

Are you data logging to make sure all is ok?

I don't think that any off the shelf Livernois tunes are ethanol friendly.  Am I wrong?

[AJP turbo]

I have been pondering this, but still don't understand.

Can we just mix ethanol into our tank and do nothing with the tune?  I didn't think our cars were flex fuel capable.  Can I just add E85 and go faster?

Are you data logging to make sure all is ok?

I don't think that any off the shelf Livernois tunes are ethanol friendly.  Am I wrong?

There is a difference between adding a few gallons of e85 and running all e85 and being considered flex fuel vehicles....running e20-e30 is alot different

Can you add some e85 and do nothing to the tune? Sure will the tune be slightly out of whack and less than ideal? Absolutely..but will there be symptoms felt by the driver? Probably not due to the ecu's compensations provided they dont exceed thresholds.

Will e85 make you faster, maybe...but it will add some knock resistance at the expense of fuel economy and allow for additional knock sensor spark advance to programmed limits

[sholxgt]

I have been pondering this, but still don't understand.

Can we just mix ethanol into our tank and do nothing with the tune?  I didn't think our cars were flex fuel capable.  Can I just add E85 and go faster?

Are you data logging to make sure all is ok?

I don't think that any off the shelf Livernois tunes are ethanol friendly.  Am I wrong?

There is a difference between adding a few gallons of e85 and running all e85 and being considered flex fuel vehicles....running e20-e30 is alot different

Can you add some e85 and do nothing to the tune? Sure will the tune be slightly out of whack and less than ideal? Absolutely..but will there be symptoms felt by the driver? Probably not due to the ecu's compensations provided they dont exceed thresholds.

Will e85 make you faster, maybe...but it will add some knock resistance at the expense of fuel economy and allow for additional knock sensor spark advance to programmed limits

The out of whack, less than ideal tune seems to net a .5 reduction in ET.

I know that you need considerably more fuel volume with ethanol.  I wonder what percent is possible for the car to adapt to since it's not a flex fuel motor.

OP, are you on a v8, 9, 10, or other tune? 

[AJP turbo]

I have been pondering this, but still don't understand.

Can we just mix ethanol into our tank and do nothing with the tune?  I didn't think our cars were flex fuel capable.  Can I just add E85 and go faster?

Are you data logging to make sure all is ok?

I don't think that any off the shelf Livernois tunes are ethanol friendly.  Am I wrong?

There is a difference between adding a few gallons of e85 and running all e85 and being considered flex fuel vehicles....running e20-e30 is alot different

Can you add some e85 and do nothing to the tune? Sure will the tune be slightly out of whack and less than ideal? Absolutely..but will there be symptoms felt by the driver? Probably not due to the ecu's compensations provided they dont exceed thresholds.

Will e85 make you faster, maybe...but it will add some knock resistance at the expense of fuel economy and allow for additional knock sensor spark advance to programmed limits

The out of whack, less than ideal tune seems to net a .5 reduction in ET.

  I wonder what percent is possible for the car to adapt to since it's not a flex fuel motor.

You obviously are not a tuner...just because a car can be quicker doesnt mean it's properly tuned....I explained above why there can be more power

The car is not adapting at all when higher ethanol fuel is used...you are relying on the primary 02 sensors to adjust fuel delivery and that is a tune that is out of whack

And its about 25% where the ecu limits short term fuel trim adjustment 

[SHOdded]

25% STFT+LTFT, right?  And I believe the fuel door sticker on 2010-12 says E10, on 2013+ it is E15 max?

[AJP turbo]

25% STFT+LTFT, right?  And I believe the fuel door sticker on 2010-12 says E10, on 2013+ it is E15 max?

Yeah but the two arent related...25-30 % is a typical stft max for the purposes of component failure...wouldnt want your 02's adding 80%

In other cars and software 25% seems to be the norm

[sholxgt]

I'm just wondering how much ethanol is possible without a problem? 

When I said the car was "adapting" I was referring to the ECU reading the O2 sensors and adjusting the fuel requirement to "adapt" to the ethanol.

FWIW, my 2013 says E10 ok, but not E20-E85.  SHO, you may be correct as that leaves a gray area between 10 and 20.

Another number to consider is that E85 requires roughly 35% more total fuel than E10 to make equal power. Less additional fuel would be required at lower ethanol amounts.  However, if you're also going to make more power, then you need more fuel beyond the 35%.

The part I'm not understanding still is how the car is running that much quicker without a tune to account for the ethanol.  An off the shelf tune shouldn't be getting substantial timing retard to begin with, so I wouldn't think that the ethanol would be eliminating a timing reduction and I wouldn't think that it would benefit much from the cooling effect since it shouldn't be detonating to begin with.  I am not saying there wouldn't be any gain, but these results are pretty amazing.

[AJP turbo]

I'm just wondering how much ethanol is possible without a problem? 

When I said the car was "adapting" I was referring to the ECU reading the O2 sensors and adjusting the fuel requirement to "adapt" to the ethanol.

FWIW, my 2013 says E10 ok, but not E20-E85.  SHO, you may be correct as that leaves a gray area between 10 and 20.

Another number to consider is that E85 requires roughly 35% more total fuel than E10 to make equal power. Less additional fuel would be required at lower ethanol amounts.  However, if you're also going to make more power, then you need more fuel beyond the 35%.

The part I'm not understanding still is how the car is running that much quicker without a tune to account for the ethanol.  An off the shelf tune shouldn't be getting substantial timing retard to begin with, so I wouldn't think that the ethanol would be eliminating a timing reduction and I wouldn't think that it would benefit much from the cooling effect since it shouldn't be detonating to begin with.  I am not saying there wouldn't be any gain, but these results are pretty amazing.

Plenty of people running e20-e30 with no "detectable" symptoms

No gray area...oem and livernois say they dont like more E

You are correct, an off the shelf tune shouldnt be getting that much timing retard...the ethanol isnt eliminating the timing retard but rather allowing timing advance as allowed by the knock sensor there is a difference

Riches results are not typical so i wouldnt beat yourself up over it. Its unique to say the least

[ElvenSho]

My friends 2015 sho with 2 gals of e85 mixed with 5 gals of 93e0 ran 13.5@105. Last night he went again but with 92e10 and ran the best of 13.9@100, it was a bit hotter but cant be that big of a difference as far as weather goes. E85 made a big difference and he could feel it.

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[sholxgt]

I really appreciate all of the input.  Very interesting that people are gaining this much with ethanol.

What is the correct way to calculate the ethanol mix?

Is it correct to add the ethanol percentages and then divide by the gallons?

So, using the above numbers...85 + 85 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 170.  170/7 = 24.29% ethanol.  Is that correct?

[SHOdded]

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

[AJP turbo]

My friends 2015 sho with 2 gals of e85 mixed with 5 gals of 93e0 ran 13.5@105. Last night he went again but with 92e10 and ran the best of 13.9@100, it was a bit hotter but cant be that big of a difference as far as weather goes. E85 made a big difference and he could feel it.

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Hot temps will pull a ton of spark and hurt power for sure

[glock-coma]

I thought he was running a livernois race tune. That would prob account for the e85 but if wound not  specify e85 in the tune file

[SHOnUup]

Running the "race" tune from Livernois. Only available for the 10-12 models.

I run a conservative mix of 17-20% just to keep knock counts down and maximize the timing allowed by the tune.

Last time at the dragway...12.25 run & 12.27 run I had 0 KR, 1800+ fuel rail, and only 13.8 lbs of boost. Mind you, that is a generic torque pro reading I watch while doing the run.

Thanks too...everyone calls it the FreakSHO...lol

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[SHOnUup]

Also...race tune does not account for the corn. I might have a special something coming up in the next week!!! See if we can run a 12 flat prior to meth.

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