ACES IV - An effective octane booster and anti-wear additive?

[Dxlnt1]

I am glad that someone was able to scientifically qualify what I had been saying all along.

My experience with ACES is good. It is allowing me to run the 93 tune with only 91 fuel available. And the difference between those tunes is night and day.

On my truck, (2004 Yukon XL) I am seemingly picking up roughly 2 mpg using the ACES.

Mr. T, I do you notice your LOR and LTFT numbers all over the place? I have seen LOR go to -5 but KR stays maybe -2. The LTFT numbers are like a digital readout all over the place. My thinking is maybe the ECU cannot interpret the LOR with the ACES. But all other performance eta is good.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Who is Mr T?

[Dxlnt1]

Uh, you! Lol.

[SHOdded]

You can get psi from MPa by multiplying by 145.0377 inside the CSV.  There is a slight knock towards the end.  Max FRP turns out to be nearly 2700 psi, min around 150 in this log, so looks good.  FRP does seem to drop a bit when the knock shows up at around 100 mph.  Doesn't seem likely, but maybe the ACES not being so effective at higher speeds?

BTW:  Their Mr T had a fear of flying, our Mr T does not LOL ...

[ecoboostsho]

I am glad that someone was able to scientifically qualify what I had been saying all along.

My experience with ACES is good. It is allowing me to run the 93 tune with only 91 fuel available. And the difference between those tunes is night and day.

On my truck, (2004 Yukon XL) I am seemingly picking up roughly 2 mpg using the ACES.

Mr. T, I do you notice your LOR and LTFT numbers all over the place? I have seen LOR go to -5 but KR stays maybe -2. The LTFT numbers are like a digital readout all over the place. My thinking is maybe the ECU cannot interpret the LOR with the ACES. But all other performance eta is good.

Do you mean -0.5 for LOR?  It should never got to "-5" unless you are using a different formula?  LOR isn't actually measured but inferred from knock so I don't see how ACES could directly impact your LOR value or prevent the ECU from adjusting it.  If you are getting excessive knock the ECU will dial back the LOR...

FoMoCoSHO  - I know we've discussed this before but I have actually been playing with LOR quite a bit lately and if I hit +4 or greater KR the car instantly adjust the LOR...Same is true for -4 KR (or if you are using ignition correction then switch those numbers around...)  I believe you said your car had to see knock for some time before LOR was adjusted so I'm starting to think it is adjustable in the tune - which would hardly be surprising.  Maybe LME is just taking LOR down right away if it sees knock...

[FoMoCoSHO]

Oar is -1 and never moves.

Trims are stable and lambda is set for 13.54:1

Attached pic is idle after warmup. Cruise is same. Car is still removing fuel especially at startup and a bunch during non shutoff decel.

[AJP turbo]

I noticed the other day that there are min and max values for LOR in the tune...stock is -1 and 1

[FoMoCoSHO]

I noticed the other day that there are min and max values for LOR in the tune...stock is -1 and 1

Thank you for clarifying that. Some of these formulas are goofy which worries me some aren't getting correct data.

Is it called LOR learned octane ratio or oar octane adjust ratio in the ecm?

[FoMoCoSHO]

I am glad that someone was able to scientifically qualify what I had been saying all along.

My experience with ACES is good. It is allowing me to run the 93 tune with only 91 fuel available. And the difference between those tunes is night and day.

On my truck, (2004 Yukon XL) I am seemingly picking up roughly 2 mpg using the ACES.

Mr. T, I do you notice your LOR and LTFT numbers all over the place? I have seen LOR go to -5 but KR stays maybe -2. The LTFT numbers are like a digital readout all over the place. My thinking is maybe the ECU cannot interpret the LOR with the ACES. But all other performance eta is good.

Do you mean -0.5 for LOR?  It should never got to "-5" unless you are using a different formula?  LOR isn't actually measured but inferred from knock so I don't see how ACES could directly impact your LOR value or prevent the ECU from adjusting it.  If you are getting excessive knock the ECU will dial back the LOR...

FoMoCoSHO  - I know we've discussed this before but I have actually been playing with LOR quite a bit lately and if I hit +4 or greater KR the car instantly adjust the LOR...Same is true for -4 KR (or if you are using ignition correction then switch those numbers around...)  I believe you said your car had to see knock for some time before LOR was adjusted so I'm starting to think it is adjustable in the tune - which would hardly be surprising.  Maybe LME is just taking LOR down right away if it sees knock...

ACES suppresses knock so id say it directly impacts LOR. Maybe ajp can tell us what stock behavior calls for. Knock hasn't affected LOR for me either car tuned or stock. A +7 on the 2013 didn't cause it to change. The way the car is now, KR is rare and a small amount.

I would like to know how it is supposed to behave though. When I bought the car it was at plus one until I added 93 and then it started moving to -1 so I'm confident it is functioning.

[ecoboostsho]

I am glad that someone was able to scientifically qualify what I had been saying all along.

My experience with ACES is good. It is allowing me to run the 93 tune with only 91 fuel available. And the difference between those tunes is night and day.

On my truck, (2004 Yukon XL) I am seemingly picking up roughly 2 mpg using the ACES.

Mr. T, I do you notice your LOR and LTFT numbers all over the place? I have seen LOR go to -5 but KR stays maybe -2. The LTFT numbers are like a digital readout all over the place. My thinking is maybe the ECU cannot interpret the LOR with the ACES. But all other performance eta is good.

Do you mean -0.5 for LOR?  It should never got to "-5" unless you are using a different formula?  LOR isn't actually measured but inferred from knock so I don't see how ACES could directly impact your LOR value or prevent the ECU from adjusting it.  If you are getting excessive knock the ECU will dial back the LOR...

FoMoCoSHO  - I know we've discussed this before but I have actually been playing with LOR quite a bit lately and if I hit +4 or greater KR the car instantly adjust the LOR...Same is true for -4 KR (or if you are using ignition correction then switch those numbers around...)  I believe you said your car had to see knock for some time before LOR was adjusted so I'm starting to think it is adjustable in the tune - which would hardly be surprising.  Maybe LME is just taking LOR down right away if it sees knock...

ACES suppresses knock so id say it directly impacts LOR. Maybe ajp can tell us what stock behavior calls for. Knock hasn't affected LOR for me either car tuned or stock. A +7 on the 2013 didn't cause it to change. The way the car is now, KR is rare and a small amount.

I would like to know how it is supposed to behave though. When I bought the car it was at plus one until I added 93 and then it started moving to -1 so I'm confident it is functioning.

I think we are saying the same thing - I just meant that there isn't an actual Octane Sensor (which I know you know)- Aces affects knock which in turn affects LOR - to me that isn't direct but I get what you are saying.

I would definitely be interested in anything AJP can tell us...I would like to understand how it works.

[AJP turbo]

Ive havent spent anytime looking at lor like u guys have...i basically check my knock sensor in my logs ..basically the tune was set up for 91...the oem left some headroom for spark advance that the knock sensor handles pretty quickly...then that trend is represented in lor which is like a global change applied to the spark tables...

I read lor like stft and ltft...the further from 0 then the more work that you need to the base table values...i could be wrong but thats how i see it

Ive read that -1 is good...but to me ..i would want to add a little spark so its not relying on the adaptives and learning...that way immediately after a reflash you are closer to where u need to be rather than having to wait

[ecoboostsho]

Thank you. That makes sense to me and is how I at least believed it worked. I am still curious if there is any indication in the ECU about what levels of knock actually trigger a LOR adjustment and if they are adjustable as that would account for our different experiences...

[FoMoCoSHO]

I am glad that someone was able to scientifically qualify what I had been saying all along.

My experience with ACES is good. It is allowing me to run the 93 tune with only 91 fuel available. And the difference between those tunes is night and day.

On my truck, (2004 Yukon XL) I am seemingly picking up roughly 2 mpg using the ACES.

Mr. T, I do you notice your LOR and LTFT numbers all over the place? I have seen LOR go to -5 but KR stays maybe -2. The LTFT numbers are like a digital readout all over the place. My thinking is maybe the ECU cannot interpret the LOR with the ACES. But all other performance eta is good.

Do you mean -0.5 for LOR?  It should never got to "-5" unless you are using a different formula?  LOR isn't actually measured but inferred from knock so I don't see how ACES could directly impact your LOR value or prevent the ECU from adjusting it.  If you are getting excessive knock the ECU will dial back the LOR...

FoMoCoSHO  - I know we've discussed this before but I have actually been playing with LOR quite a bit lately and if I hit +4 or greater KR the car instantly adjust the LOR...Same is true for -4 KR (or if you are using ignition correction then switch those numbers around...)  I believe you said your car had to see knock for some time before LOR was adjusted so I'm starting to think it is adjustable in the tune - which would hardly be surprising.  Maybe LME is just taking LOR down right away if it sees knock...

ACES suppresses knock so id say it directly impacts LOR. Maybe ajp can tell us what stock behavior calls for. Knock hasn't affected LOR for me either car tuned or stock. A +7 on the 2013 didn't cause it to change. The way the car is now, KR is rare and a small amount.

I would like to know how it is supposed to behave though. When I bought the car it was at plus one until I added 93 and then it started moving to -1 so I'm confident it is functioning.

I think we are saying the same thing - I just meant that there isn't an actual Octane Sensor (which I know you know)- Aces affects knock which in turn affects LOR - to me that isn't direct but I get what you are saying.

I would definitely be interested in anything AJP can tell us...I would like to understand how it works.

There are a couple of snippets from Cobb and  Stratified in the tuning section.

[AJP turbo]

Thank you. That makes sense to me and is how I at least believed it worked. I am still curious if there is any indication in the ECU about what levels of knock actually trigger a LOR adjustment and if they are adjustable as that would account for our different experiences...

That I don't know. I haven't seen any thresholds for that but I'll take a look sometime I think that may be hard coded stuff and or algorithms that aren't exposed

[Dxlnt1]

I am glad that someone was able to scientifically qualify what I had been saying all along.

My experience with ACES is good. It is allowing me to run the 93 tune with only 91 fuel available. And the difference between those tunes is night and day.

On my truck, (2004 Yukon XL) I am seemingly picking up roughly 2 mpg using the ACES.

Mr. T, I do you notice your LOR and LTFT numbers all over the place? I have seen LOR go to -5 but KR stays maybe -2. The LTFT numbers are like a digital readout all over the place. My thinking is maybe the ECU cannot interpret the LOR with the ACES. But all other performance eta is good.

Do you mean -0.5 for LOR?  It should never got to "-5" unless you are using a different formula?  LOR isn't actually measured but inferred from knock so I don't see how ACES could directly impact your LOR value or prevent the ECU from adjusting it.  If you are getting excessive knock the ECU will dial back the LOR...

FoMoCoSHO  - I know we've discussed this before but I have actually been playing with LOR quite a bit lately and if I hit +4 or greater KR the car instantly adjust the LOR...Same is true for -4 KR (or if you are using ignition correction then switch those numbers around...)  I believe you said your car had to see knock for some time before LOR was adjusted so I'm starting to think it is adjustable in the tune - which would hardly be surprising.  Maybe LME is just taking LOR down right away if it sees knock...

You are right. -.5 is the lowest rather highest LOR value I have seen. But the KR value is negative number 98% of time. Only time it goes positive is on deceleration. Which is consistent with log file here too.

I thought the LOR was an actual sensor that was reading fuel quality. If it is or it isn't, my theory was whatever sensor is making the initial read for it, because of the ACES maybe it is just dirty or unclear how to read it. The only time the LOR does that is usually upon refueling. THe LOR will always read different. In my case though, my car will sit for a few days after I refill. SO when I come back to it then it read the -1 again.

My understanding also ACES does NOT suppress knock, it enhances LOR. Then the ECU is tries to advance timing until knock is detected. Am I missing something?