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PP vs. Non PP?

Started by 14 TUX BL, April 10, 2015, 11:15:50 AM

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14 TUX BL

I get where you're coming from, but top automotive journals already weed out variables so the items you mention are not an issue (they've been doing it for years). Conditions are standardized as it regards weather, etc., so there is no "perfect" vs. "imperfect" day of testing. And driver variables is a non issue, remember, we have AWD.

The evaluation makes complete sense, is totally reasonable and quite trustworthy.

I'm satisfied ...

AJP turbo

Quote from: 14 TUX BL on April 28, 2015, 10:28:09 PM
I get where you're coming from, but top automotive journals already weed out variables so the items you mention are not an issue (they've been doing it for years). Conditions are standardized as it regards weather, etc., so there is no "perfect" vs. "imperfect" day of testing. And driver variables is a non issue, remember, we have AWD.

The evaluation makes complete sense, is totally reasonable and quite trustworthy.

I'm satisfied ...

That's good you are satisfied but u are easily satisfied then......to be honest it means nothing really...the conditions are sooooo far from standardized....I don't care if it's 8 wheel drive..lol how do they eliminate the weather as a variable when they tested the cars at different times at different places on different days lol...it's a nice opinion of the writer but it's about the least scientific of an experiment or test that there could possibly be lol...everything I mention is an issue including that you are clueless lol
SCT Dealer/Custom Calibrator                        
Specializing in 3.5 Ecoboost   
Remote/email custom tuning including E85 blends 
Authorized retailer for all SCT devices. 
 
Former:2014 PP SHO
3 bar 93 tune, Airaid, Stainless Works non catted DP's  
405whp/520tq
Dyno
     
Current:2016 F150 2.7 Ecoboost
Tuning in progress

SHOnUup

It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...;)

Rich

2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.

14 TUX BL

Quote from: ajpturbo
That's good you are satisfied but u are easily satisfied then......to be honest it means nothing really...the conditions are sooooo far from standardized....I don't care if it's 8 wheel drive..lol how do they eliminate the weather as a variable when they tested the cars at different times at different places on different days lol...it's a nice opinion of the writer but it's about the least scientific of an experiment or test that there could possibly be lol...everything I mention is an issue including that you are clueless lol

Listen, you're confused.

The intent of my thread was to see observations in regards to PP vs non PP results in the "Stock Times" thread, not to appease individual people's unrestrained ego's. The thing that really destroys any credibility you may have had is your poor choice to be insulting. Also, your comments fail to add anything of value to my two decades of drag racing experience. Lastly, take note: gross immaturity is frowned upon by rational human beings.

Quote from: SHOnUup on April 28, 2015, 11:51:08 PM
It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...;)

Rich

A mature and intelligent comment, praise God!

It is true that 3/10 sec is not enough of a difference that someone asleep at the wheel in a PP car will beat a non PP car. But all things being equal, the PP's 3/10 sec quarter mile advantage because of it's more aggressive gearing is definitely worth the price of admission.

As far as tunes go, I've been modding since the 80's. No longer interested, my baby's staying 100% bumper-to-bumper bone stock. :-)

BiGMaC

Quote from: 14 TUX BL on April 29, 2015, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo
That's good you are satisfied but u are easily satisfied then......to be honest it means nothing really...the conditions are sooooo far from standardized....I don't care if it's 8 wheel drive..lol how do they eliminate the weather as a variable when they tested the cars at different times at different places on different days lol...it's a nice opinion of the writer but it's about the least scientific of an experiment or test that there could possibly be lol...everything I mention is an issue including that you are clueless lol

Listen, you're confused.

The intent of my thread was to see observations in regards to PP vs non PP results in the "Stock Times" thread, not to appease individual people's unrestrained ego's. The thing that really destroys any credibility you may have had is your poor choice to be insulting. Also, your comments fail to add anything of value to my two decades of drag racing experience. Lastly, take note: gross immaturity is frowned upon by rational human beings.

Quote from: SHOnUup on April 28, 2015, 11:51:08 PM
It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...;)

Rich

A mature and intelligent comment, praise God!

It is true that 3/10 sec is not enough of a difference that someone asleep at the wheel in a PP car will beat a non PP car. But all things being equal, the PP's 3/10 sec quarter mile advantage because of it's more aggressive gearing is definitely worth the price of admission.

Agree with you on all points.  I think the use of the car as well as the desires for performance have to be weighed.  For me, I was after a DD that was quick... I don't race her... And there's no place to drive fast in this country except the track.  I wanted ACC, it really reduces my drive fatigue, compensates for traffic flow, and adds some safety... Ford won't put ACC on a PP SHO... So I chose creature comforts and daily quickness.. I did mod enough so far (see my sig) to get my 0-60 a little below 4 sec.
So that's how my choice was made.... Either version is a sleeper and a real hoot to drive.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

SHOnUup

Quote from: 14 TUX BL on April 29, 2015, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: ajpturbo
That's good you are satisfied but u are easily satisfied then......to be honest it means nothing really...the conditions are sooooo far from standardized....I don't care if it's 8 wheel drive..lol how do they eliminate the weather as a variable when they tested the cars at different times at different places on different days lol...it's a nice opinion of the writer but it's about the least scientific of an experiment or test that there could possibly be lol...everything I mention is an issue including that you are clueless lol
Only things I keep drooling over not having a PP...PTU cooler, trans cooler, oil cooler....those are the key items IMO.

Wonder what the weight was on tested vehicles...tires, PP summer tires vs all season could be the difference. Tire pressure at testing. DA changes hourly and you could see a 3 tenths swing in the matter of hours. Non optioned non pp vs fully optioned PP could carry a decent weight change I think too.

So who's buying 2 brand new SHO'S? One of each to test it all out...lol ;)


Quote from: SHOnUup on April 28, 2015, 11:51:08 PM
It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...;)

Rich

A mature and intelligent comment, praise God!

It is true that 3/10 sec is not enough of a difference that someone asleep at the wheel in a PP car will beat a non PP car. But all things being equal, the PP's 3/10 sec quarter mile advantage because of it's more aggressive gearing is definitely worth the price of admission.

As far as tunes go, I've been modding since the 80's. No longer interested, my baby's staying 100% bumper-to-bumper bone stock. :-)


Rich

2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.

68_GT

did anyone discuss the other options the PP includes ?

all things being otherwise completely equal the SHO with the lower gear ratio will have a performance advantage


2013 Ford Taurus SHO with Performance Package

The brakes get a larger master cylinder bore for a pedal ratio change that gives you less travel at the top of the pedal for a firmer feel, and the rear vented brake rotors are 30 percent larger. The already massive vented front rotors get dual piston 48-mm calipers with performance friction pads, and the pistons themselves have high-temp dust boots and seals that pull the pads more effectively away from the discs for less heat buildup.

Chassis upgrades include stiffer front springs to reduce understeer and a front anti-roll bar that's actually a little smaller to get the car to roll and pitch in a more predictable and balanced fashion. The shock absorbers have been modified for better low-speed damping, and the electric-assist steering has been recalibrated for better feedback from the big 20-in Goodyear Eagle F1 245/45 tires mounted on distinctive SHO cookie-cutter style wheels.

Extra track-day heat is carried away by a pair of water-to-oil coolers plumed into a radiator core with extra capacity. One helps the PTO on the transmission to run 16 percent cooler, and the other cools the engine oil.

In our lapping session I found the car surprisingly civilized, supple and quiet, despite its ability to turn in nicely and then drift in controlled, balanced fashion. The engine is blazingly fast down the straights and comes off the corners with hard-hitting torque (and makes a lovely sound while doing it), and the easily modulated brakes have no trouble catching the line drive to shortstop. For a big car, it bleeds off speed easily and impressively.

Complaints? Well, the seat bolsters could be more supportive for this level of track grip, and the tach face is about the size of your wristwatch. Also, I found the automatic upshifts in the Sport mode to be a bit conservative while coming off corners—though they got better the more you put your foot in it. Still, the paddle shifters are the way to go when true fun and instant gratification are called for.
2013 PP SHO LMS 93V10 tune, 170* T stat, 3bar, K&N drop in, plugs re-gapped, 4in exhaust tips.
UPDATE - 130K miles =blown engine. Unleashed tune and EBPP upgrade turbo billet wheels / Turbo Smart WGA's on a bran new long block. Let's get this SHO on the road !

2013 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB daily driver ;) - LMS 93 tune and CPE intercooler

FoMoCoSHO

That article like many written about the SHO is completely out of context where the brakes are involved. Brakes are the same with the except of the pads. That blurb is comparing Gen 4.1 to 4.2

ShoBoat

I love my PP but it's not all roses either, is it quicker than a non PP it felt a little quicker when I test drove both before purchase. The additional liquid cooling was the main reason for my choice and the ability to turn off the stability system. However I have also had my front hubs replace 3 times. These are PP only hubs lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ZSHO

#99
I have been doing a little research and unfortunetly there is very little credible facts to say the least between the two available,found an enthralling site which hopefully is feasible in many aspects and should benefit .Z    http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Taurus-Timeslip-26105.html   hopefull it will satisfy the OP questions related to this issue.Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

14 TUX BL