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Can`t decide between LMS and Unleashed for Ex Sport

Started by xsport, October 09, 2014, 12:28:36 PM

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xsport

Hi everyone,
I`ve been doing some research on LMS and Unleashed tunes for the Explorer Sport. I can`t decide between the two.
I`m looking for maximum power output without it being damaging to the engine (which tune is safer?) with better MPG.

Can anyone help me decide? I read between the two but didn't see any info that answered my questions.

What do the majority on this forum choose and why?

Thanks in advance!
2014 Explorer Sport White Platinum Tricoat

BBOX

Unleashed will work with you to customize the tune to your needs, wants and desires and provides world-class after-sale support.

xsport

Im just worried about engine reliability. Lms has been out for a few yrs without any damage or problems to cars. I think unleashed is pretty new. What has a better 0-60 time?
2014 Explorer Sport White Platinum Tricoat

SHOnUup

#3
Both are great options.

Maybe Shodded could link a recent thread of this discussion as we all our passionate about our support of the tuners we choose.

Rich
2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.

ZSHO

Quote from: BBOX on October 09, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Unleashed will work with you to customize the tune to your needs, wants and desires and provides world-class after-sale support.
BBOX what happened to your sig.


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

BBOX

Quote from: xsport on October 09, 2014, 02:12:52 PM
Im just worried about engine reliability. Lms has been out for a few yrs without any damage or problems to cars. I think unleashed is pretty new. What has a better 0-60 time?

Unleashed has been tuning these cars for as long as LMS. Someone may want to have the contest about who was technically first but any difference would be negligible. To my knowledge there's never been a useful head-to-head comparison between the two tunes that might provide accurate information about performance, you'd need one car with the same mods running them back-to-back and I don't know if that's ever happened.

BBOX

Quote from: ZSHO on October 09, 2014, 02:15:22 PM
Quote from: BBOX on October 09, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Unleashed will work with you to customize the tune to your needs, wants and desires and provides world-class after-sale support.
BBOX what happened to your sig.

Made some changes, didn't like 'em, now I'm starting from scratch, should be fixed in a couple days or thereabouts.

ZSHO

Short and brief both have reputable credentials as far as tuning,I usually always say Livernois,but then always get into a lengthy debate,Torrie is cheaper but LME cost more but you get what you pay for,and good luck.


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

SHOdded

#8
This blurb will give you a good start on your ultimate decision.  Only you can decide which factors are imporant to you:  proximity, cost, brick&mortar vs Inet, datalogging vs canned, E95/E98 or not, etc.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

wasinger3000

Quote from: ZSHO on October 09, 2014, 02:40:51 PM
Short and brief both have reputable credentials as far as tuning,I usually always say Livernois,but then always get into a lengthy debate,Torrie is cheaper but LME cost more but you get what you pay for,and good luck.
I will not agree with your usage of the phrase "you get what you pay for" in reference to LMS vs Unleased. It imply's that the higher cost of LMS is somehow a significant factor of improvement.

Which it is not.

Both offer gains. None of which have been at a set number of improvement be it power or fuel milage as there are to many variables.

With Unleased Tuning you get almost instantaneous email reply's at nearly any hour of day. You also get free tune updates for any mods you put on.

One of the most important features in my option is the ability to have tunes adjusted and mapped to your specific engine. This way you get the most out of your engine safely over the others that do not monitor for irregularities.

13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

BBOX

I agree with wasinger that the phrase "get what you pay for" is not the best choice for this situation because it's a bit more nuanced. I'll also preface the remainder of the post by stating that I don't have actual experience with LMS so if I'm wrong, please correct me.

As I understand it, LMS will dyno their vehicle and release new versions of their tunes based upon the mods of each person's car, but they do not completely individualize each tune to each individual customer car, unless you are willing to take the car to their shop and have them dyno tune it. I am uncertain if this carries additional expense or not.

Similar to LMS, Unleashed has prebuilt tunes based on various modifications that are available. However, Torrie does not just push out an update, rather he gives the option to have customers data log and adjust their tune specifically to their vehicle. This does require a bit more work, but not a ton in my opinion. Torrie is great about after-the-sale support too, unbelievably fast in his responses and patient with questions you may have.

I don't believe that any two cars are exactly alike and therefore using the exact same tune on two different vehicles can produce different results. They may not be drastically different results, but they're still likely to be different. Some people are very satisfied with the simplicity and ease of use of a tune that is updated periodically and requires no more effort than plugging in the tuning device and loading the new tune. Some people prefer a tune designed to their specific vehicle and will be willing to incur the additional work needed of either getting the car to a dyno for tuning (typically easiest and quickest but costs money) or performing the data logging needed to adjust the tune accordingly (likely will require multiple runs/time but free) to get the best experience out of their car. It may not turn out to be a huge difference between the "plug and play" option and the "vehicle-specific" option, so it really comes down to the individual and their comfort level. I don't think either is "right" or "wrong," just different.

I've never dealt with LMS so I'm certainly not going to say anything disparaging about them, but in my opinion Torrie offers a product that can produce at LEAST as good results at a lower price, and does it with terrific service. That makes Unleashed a winner in my book.




BBOX

Just so everyone's clear, the above is from a post LMS made in another thread a while back.

wasinger3000

#12
Quote from: ZSHO on October 09, 2014, 05:48:05 PM
FOUND THIS AWHILE BACK,data logging vs. our custom tuning.  Keep in mind we do not condone bashing any other companies or competitors by any means but this was a post stating basically the facts you are looking for.





We are using OEM grade hardware to ensure proper logging. We do not use a PID that then has an equation, to then give a improper value like so many other logging devices. This can result in seeing the wrong values which we have seen happen time and time again. I am not certain why you keep asking the same questions over and over again on this. We offered to fly you here to see what we do, we have offered others that are non-believers to fly you here to see what we do, and whenever we offer, the excuses start flowing. It's very disappointing that you would rather continue to spout incorrect information with no hard data while saying we do the same. The difference is we have offered to show people, while you just bash us rather than caring about the community by having an open mind on things.




Now, addressing the facts. 91 octane from various regions of course varies slightly, but dear lord, if you have your tune so much on asswhooper that you are having to adjust it because you went to a different station that is part of the problem that shows lack of wisdom in tuning. These are peoples cars, their 40k+ investment, why would anyone want to have to load a different tune everytime they decided to fill up somewhere else than normal, or go out of town?




But, we actually do testing on fuels. I think many times people forget where we are. We are in Dearborn Heights, right next to Dearborn. We have access to likely the most automotive testing resources in the entire country, this includes fuel depots that have fuel of different blends specifically just for testing.




Back again on datalogging, these loggers people are using have been proven to be incorrect. A great example is a/f ratio. People continue to request a/f ratio to tune these, and many other cars, but the computer doesn't speak in A/F, so an outside company takes a generic PID (which is broadcast much slower than the way we log) and converts it to a/f. But how is this done? You can't calculate A/F without knowing at the bare minimum the stoichiometric A/F of the fuel you're running. What if it's 14.64, 14.58, 14.53, 14.08, 13.71, etc? The A/F calculation changes based on this, as would the tuning associated with it. This flawed system of datalogging is why it takes so many attempts back and forth to get it better, but also why you never see that need with us. We know enough about these cars that we don't need logs. And in the rare occasion we are stumped, we load the tune into one of 11 different ecoboost vehicles at our disposal and recreate it.




Another glaring issue with logging is you are asking customers to go out, and run their car hard with a potential issue. It takes just one WOT run with the tune wrong to blow it up. I also don't know how anyone can ask someone to go run these cars in 4th gear on public roads to gather accurate info. Doing a WOT run in 1st and 2nd does not load these cars properly, so not having an log at low load is rather meaningless. I don't know who here wants to sign up to run from 80-140 repeatedly to get important information. And on top of that, by doing so you are watching info, while not knowing if it's right or wrong, so if it's wrong it's very easily going to be too late, the damage will be done, all so someone can get a log that now is worthless since the car is damaged. Again, just another reason why we use our cars to do this.




When tuned with the right logic, and knowledge behind it, the tune is right from the word go. You don't see Ford going around tuning the car differently for various regions, brands of fuel, or anything like that.




You have also accused us in the past of copying others, which is unfortunate. Let me just spell out some facts about us, our tuning, our products, and the results from it.




in 2009, before anyone had software, we were tuning the SHO and MKS.




In 2011 we were tuning the f150 Eco before other companies could even flash it. We were the first again




in 2012 we were tuning the 2013 SHO while other software wasn't out for 6-8 months later




in 2012 we were tuning the Explorer Sport, almost a full year and a half before anyone else.




first to tune the 2.0 fusion




first to tune the 1.5 fusion




first to tune the 1.6 fusion




first to tune the 2.0 escape




first to tune the 1.6 escape




first tune only 12 second SHO




first 11 second SHO




first 12 second F150




First 12 second Explorer Sport




First with upgraded turbos




First with Downpipes




First with Methanol kits




First to offer 3-bar tuning




First 600whp EcoBoost Dyno captured on video




Highest HP EcoBoost Engine on the planet




I am sure there are more things, like exhausts we have helped create, and other items, but this post is plenty long enough.




We spend a great deal of time and resources making certain what we have is the best out there, and the easiest, most reliable offering. We would love to be able to charge our customers, and then make them do the work for us, but it's not how we operate.




Just take a minute to look at the fast list, read it over, and see where our tuned cars are at. I guess it's hard to argue with results.
Taking a "hostile" post from another thread, BY the company of ownershiop and making a mess of this thread is NOT what we need. This isn't what the OP wants. Post useful information that is non biased please.

Yes this is an option based question that we are all obviously responding to with our opinions. Just don't drag it down in a post war.
13' SHO, Non-PP, Tuned by Torrie, Meth injection, 3 bar, 170* stat, custom axle back exhaust, Prosport Boost gauge.
15' F150 Lariat Sport, all the options, 3.5L Eco. (fiancée ride.)
13' GTCS, will be missed.

SHOnUup

Dyno tune...best option out there...as explained in the "hostile" post above.

One thing I was weary about was the changing conditions while data logging(temp, gas quality from run to run, road conditions, tire spin, etc etc etc)

It's nice having multiple tuners working hard at perfecting this platform for us and they both deserve thanks. Without competition things move slower.

Ecoboosting for the win!!!!

Rich
2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.

ZSHO

Learned alot on this forum,met some interesting people and made alot of friends like BBOX,WASINGER and many more,next month will be a year since my father had multiple surguries and still recovering,so basically this forum kept my mind busy and kept my mind away from the negativity that i was dealing everyday with,so really dont give a rats *** which company is better,i appologize to anyone that i offended,thank you.


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|