3.5 Ecoboost Carbon Buildup

[jtoddk98]

Hey,

My SHO has almost 38k miles on it. I know from friends that own Direct Injected cars (Audi&VW) that they have to get the valves cleaned because of the carbon buildup. I know that the Ecoboost is Direct Injected, is carbon buildup something to worry about? As for fuel, I run 93 octane. Should I continue to run 93 or am I just wasting money?

[BiGMaC]

Run 93 for sure!

As far as the carbon build up.  It's a hotly discussed topic here.  FWIW I have been unable to find the kind of severe problems audi, etc, have... In 2011 Ford dismantled a Transverse 3.5 TTEB (GDI) in public at 37K miles with no significant finding of build up... The car was dyno'd before and after the cleaning they did and no HP change was found... the article is posted somewhere in the PCV issues thread.

[Tuner Boost]

Fuel has no effect on it like it did with the old port injection engines as no fuel ever touches the valves now to keep them clean, but 93 your boosted engine will like you for as far as power and MPG.  Ready the PCV thread like Mac suggested. The EB does NOT have it as severe as the audi & BMW's.

[BiGMaC]

Run 93 octane for general engine performance and safety... Tracey is correct, that's where the issue arises in GDI engines... don't do it for the valves, run 93 octane for all the other reasons... not much more than is stated here is actually known about htis in the Transvers 3.5 TT GDI engine... only time will tell. 

I would recommend reading the problems with the PCV thread in it's entirety.... 

[jtoddk98]

I Read the top big post on the PCV thread,I thought the Ecoboost had its own built in oil separator. I also saw the Ecoboost f150 teardown from the torture test. All the pistons had carbon buildup and it also had buildup on the the valves. Looks like my first SHO mod will be a catch can. I have seen tons of them on the market. Which is the best? Are they hard to install? I put a JLT separator on my friends 2013 Mustang GT. Literally took me 5 mins. I'm hoping it's as easy on the Ecoboost

[BiGMaC]

I Read the top big post on the PCV thread,I thought the Ecoboost had its own built in oil separator. I also saw the Ecoboost f150 teardown from the torture test. All the pistons had carbon buildup and it also had buildup on the the valves. Looks like my first SHO mod will be a catch can. I have seen tons of them on the market. Which is the best? Are they hard to install? I put a JLT separator on my friends 2013 Mustang GT. Literally took me 5 mins. I'm hoping it's as easy on the Ecoboost

IMHO, you really should read the entire 9 pages of the PCV thread  as well as ShoBoat's "Testing oil separators" to be fully informed. It's here:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=2584.msg38378#msg38378
FWIW I believe the evidence for or against use the SHO 3.5 transverse GDI is just not in yet.... FYI, I own an RX catch can and cleanside separator...just not installed yet. I want objective info.  Each will decide what path to take as with all mods.

[jtoddk98]

I finally read through both threads. I even gave Livernois a call (kinda knew what they were going to say). Man, its a really big debate. Coming from the Mustang world, people just put them on, couldn't hurt anything. I wish there was a RX design catch can that was specifically made for the SHO for ease of installation. I don't want to have to retrofit something from a f150. I noticed that my local Ford dealer offers BG services. Are these good? Especially the intake service to take care of the carbon build up.

[BiGMaC]

I finally read through both threads. I even gave Livernois a call (kinda knew what they were going to say). Man, its a really big debate. Coming from the Mustang world, people just put them on, couldn't hurt anything. I wish there was a RX design catch can that was specifically made for the SHO for ease of installation. I don't want to have to retrofit something from a f150. I noticed that my local Ford dealer offers BG services. Are these good? Especially the intake service to take care of the carbon build up.

BG services is IMHO top of the line.  There are others, just not enough experience...  If I haven't seen the objective evidence I need to decide... and my performance falls off (I end up doing dynos at intervals to check mods) I'll go BG at a dealer. FWIW, and that's little on the intake valves, I use Techron concentrate every every 3K miles.

Same trouble I had/have deciding... GDI is different (as opposed to port injection), turbo'd is different too....

[JimiJak]

...I wish there was a RX design catch can that was specifically made for the SHO for ease of installation.

HERE is the link to EcoBoost Power Parts website, this is where you'll find the SHO application for the Rx OCC, not on the Rx website direct. You don't want the "Monster Can", just the dual check valve, "regular" can. The clean-side separator is extra, but also available on that page.

I'm afraid you've stumbled into a bit of a hot button topic on the forum at the moment. LOL The great news about that in a place like this, is that means there is a TON of testing and research being done at the moment (I love it here). Unfortunately the jury is out on a lot of these tests...but the results should start pouring in soon.

As for more information on your question; "which is the best?" and ease of install I own a Rx OCC and clean-side separator, and installed it last week on my XSport, which is a VERY similar layout to your platform. Haven't drained it yet...but the miles are adding up. All-in-all, I would say start to finish I spent about 2.5 - 3 hours on it. This was my first OCC install, this is my first forced induction engine, I took pictures as I went for the DIY write-up, and had a run to the hardware store thrown in to pick up a couple nuts and bolts for my particular mounting choice. So, I would say not a big job at all. Plus with the addition of more write-ups being done, there's more information to help things go smoother and faster than when I did it.

Click HERE for my install thread, HERE for install on a Flex, HERE for SwampRat's 'results' page of what people are getting out of their Rx cans / other mounting ideas, and HERE for another test going on at the moment by ShoBoat with the Moroso separators.

[Tuner Boost]

...I wish there was a RX design catch can that was specifically made for the SHO for ease of installation.

HERE is the link to EcoBoost Power Parts website, this is where you'll find the SHO application for the Rx OCC, not on the Rx website direct. You don't want the "Monster Can", just the dual check valve, "regular" can. The clean-side separator is extra, but also available on that page.

I'm afraid you've stumbled into a bit of a hot button topic on the forum at the moment. LOL The great news about that in a place like this, is that means there is a TON of testing and research being done at the moment (I love it here). Unfortunately the jury is out on a lot of these tests...but the results should start pouring in soon.

As for more information on your question; "which is the best?" and ease of install I own a Rx OCC and clean-side separator, and installed it last week on my XSport, which is a VERY similar layout to your platform. Haven't drained it yet...but the miles are adding up. All-in-all, I would say start to finish I spent about 2.5 - 3 hours on it. This was my first OCC install, this is my first forced induction engine, I took pictures as I went for the DIY write-up, and had a run to the hardware store thrown in to pick up a couple nuts and bolts for my particular mounting choice. So, I would say not a big job at all. Plus with the addition of more write-ups being done, there's more information to help things go smoother and faster than when I did it.

Click HERE for my install thread, HERE for install on a Flex, HERE for SwampRat's 'results' page of what people are getting out of their Rx cans / other mounting ideas, and HERE for another test going on at the moment by ShoBoat with the Moroso separators.

The more actual end user testing and results, the better. Our handicap here is we only have the EB f150 on site for long term testing of the EB's.  The more cars from the area that can come and participate, the better. We want as high a mileage one as possible to do before dyno, then manual clean valves and add RX system and do after dyno.

So far all but a few of the over 250 f150 EB RX users have reported from 1-3 mpg improvement as well.

[JimiJak]

Tracy, I'm resurrecting this thread...
To get back to the root of these questions; a ton of excess carbon seems to be a regular trait of direct injection engines. And this time I'm not talking about the PCV mist getting burned off by hot intake ports...I'm talking about from the combustion chamber out. I've never had exhaust tips get completely covered in soot like they do with direct injection.

Why is that??

[FoMoCoSHO]

They run pig rich at wot. That's another advantage of blending e-85, tips stay clean and shiny. I wonder what effect it has, if any, on carbon buildup in the valves. Sounds like its time to have a tech break out the boroscope.

[JimiJak]

They run pig rich at wot. That's another advantage of blending e-85, tips stay clean and shiny. I wonder what effect it has, if any, on carbon buildup in the valves. Sounds like its time to have a tech break out the boroscope.

True...but even when the girlfriend putts around town, three days and they're filthy. More to it?

[jtoddk98]

That's a good question. My tips are black after about a week. I ran a can of BG 44K through a tank of gas to clean the piston tops and combustion chamber up.


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[FoMoCoSHO]

They run pig rich at wot. That's another advantage of blending e-85, tips stay clean and shiny. I wonder what effect it has, if any, on carbon buildup in the valves. Sounds like its time to have a tech break out the boroscope.

True...but even when the girlfriend putts around town, three days and they're filthy. More to it?

When the cats away the mice will play?