Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 10, 2015, 06:14:34 PM
BTW F8L....I've never understood the whole fuel requirement when cold issue. In my mind, you are shooting for the same torque targets so it shouldn't change.

Lo and behold, I just read that the reason is that during the winter there are further oxygenates added besides ethanol that further enlean the mixture starting out.

Makes perfect sense now. Hope that helps.

When you were running your highest mix in the winter, how low did you pressure get?


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Maybe a combo of things...i never thought about the fuel itself being an issue....but if u fill the cylinder with 100 degree air and fill the cylinder with 20 degree air the 20 degree air would contain more o2 molecules requiring more fuel to achieve the same lambda readings after combustion as measure by the 02 sensors....that makes sense to me why colder air requires more fuel being delivered thus lowering fuel pressure because injector duty cycle increases

Quote from: ajpturbo on November 11, 2015, 07:29:33 PM
Maybe a combo of things...i never thought about the fuel itself being an issue....but if u fill the cylinder with 100 degree air and fill the cylinder with 20 degree air the 20 degree air would contain more o2 molecules requiring more fuel to achieve the same lambda readings after combustion as measure by the 02 sensors....that makes sense to me why colder air requires more fuel being delivered thus lowering fuel pressure because injector duty cycle increases

This is exactly how I see it!!! Just didn't explain it that well. Makes perfect sense in my head.. Lol


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Air density calculator
http://denysschen.com/catalogue/density.aspx

Quote from: f8tlSHO on November 11, 2015, 04:49:50 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 10, 2015, 06:14:34 PM
BTW F8L....I've never understood the whole fuel requirement when cold issue. In my mind, you are shooting for the same torque targets so it shouldn't change.

Lo and behold, I just read that the reason is that during the winter there are further oxygenates added besides ethanol that further enlean the mixture starting out.

Makes perfect sense now. Hope that helps.

When you were running your highest mix in the winter, how low did you pressure get?


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Honestly no idea, I wasn't logging when it occurred. What I do know is it happened on WOT downshifts right into my fuel challenged areas and  KR pegged and the car basically shut down (I assume it shut down the throttle) I immediately blended down and it never happened again. 

I suspect I was south of 1k when the ECM said NO.

I looked at the last log from the 2013 and had a couple dips to 1450psi. This was at E20. Car was running great, no knock. Never got it to the track due to trading up.

It was running more timing and boost and AFR was set at .82

Quote from: ajpturbo on November 11, 2015, 07:29:33 PM
Maybe a combo of things...i never thought about the fuel itself being an issue....but if u fill the cylinder with 100 degree air and fill the cylinder with 20 degree air the 20 degree air would contain more o2 molecules requiring more fuel to achieve the same lambda readings after combustion as measure by the 02 sensors....that makes sense to me why colder air requires more fuel being delivered thus lowering fuel pressure because injector duty cycle increases

I think I will run my K&N air heater during the winter and switch to MDesign for the summer.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:28:03 PM
I think I will run my K&N air heater during the winter and switch to MDesign for the summer.

Interesting experiment.  Rather than cut back on the proof?

Quote from: SHOdded on November 13, 2015, 07:29:40 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:28:03 PM
I think I will run my K&N air heater during the winter and switch to MDesign for the summer.

Interesting experiment.  Rather than cut back on the proof?

Yup. The 2013 had the OEM intake on when I had the problem and we all know it does a great job of keeping iat's near ambient. Sounds like that can actually work against me.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:59:53 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on November 13, 2015, 07:29:40 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:28:03 PM
I think I will run my K&N air heater during the winter and switch to MDesign for the summer.

Interesting experiment.  Rather than cut back on the proof?

Yup. The 2013 had the OEM intake on when I had the problem and we all know it does a great job of keeping iat's near ambient. Sounds like that can actually work against me.

So you want to install the hot air intake? Lol I thought the m design intake worked pretty good


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Quote from: f8tlSHO on November 13, 2015, 08:01:47 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:59:53 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on November 13, 2015, 07:29:40 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:28:03 PM
I think I will run my K&N air heater during the winter and switch to MDesign for the summer.

Interesting experiment.  Rather than cut back on the proof?

Yup. The 2013 had the OEM intake on when I had the problem and we all know it does a great job of keeping iat's near ambient. Sounds like that can actually work against me.

So you want to install the hot air intake? Lol I thought the m design intake worked pretty good


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Well if letting the intake air warm up a bit keeps the problem at bay than I'm up for whatever. I had the K&N on the car till my recent dealership visit and I was going to upgrade to Mdesign anyway. Mdesign functions like OEM so it will keep IAT's near ambient. In no way am I disparaging the Mdesign.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 08:10:45 PM

Quote from: f8tlSHO on November 13, 2015, 08:01:47 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:59:53 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on November 13, 2015, 07:29:40 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on November 13, 2015, 07:28:03 PM
I think I will run my K&N air heater during the winter and switch to MDesign for the summer.

Interesting experiment.  Rather than cut back on the proof?

Yup. The 2013 had the OEM intake on when I had the problem and we all know it does a great job of keeping iat's near ambient. Sounds like that can actually work against me.

So you want to install the hot air intake? Lol I thought the m design intake worked pretty good


Sent from my iPhone

Well if letting the intake air warm up a bit keeps the problem at bay than I'm up for whatever. I had the K&N on the car till my recent dealership visit and I was going to upgrade to Mdesign anyway. Mdesign functions like OEM so it will keep IAT's near ambient. In no way am I disparaging the Mdesign.

I have seen no real evidence that any cai is better than the stock system.


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Agreed on the CAI....at the same time 14Shocars dyno showed less of a high RPM loss. I assume the addition downpipes will better those results

It sound good and looks much better on the car than sitting on my garage floor.

Knowing that it doesn't do much makes me feel uncomfortable about selling it.