So you learn something new every day. I have been under the impression for many years that this fuel was pure gas. Apparently that is incorrect and contains ethanol already. Now I don't have any issue with this obviously but knowing the amount in my base fuel would've been really fricken helpful! 

No damn wonder I ran out of fuel this winter...

I emailed Shell and will update when i get a response.

Oh, and if you happen to be in Ohio, there are no labeling requirements on the pump.

Looks like that changed in 2002.

Yeah politicians!

Supposedly all you need is a graduated cylinder, distilled water, and fuel sample to guesstimate the ethanol %.  There are kits that use dyes also to make the phase separation boundary easier to see.  Here's an E85 test kit:
http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fuel-36-E85-E-85-Sample/dp/B007ZJ749O/

IIRC, the tagline in MD is that "this product may contain up to 10% ethanol by volume", so you don't know what you are getting either.

Your email will be some generic response I bet. Something about how fuel is made to the requirements of local and federal laws.  Just a guess.  But I hope they provide a detailed letter.

Quote from: panther427 on March 15, 2015, 07:38:23 AM
Your email will be some generic response I bet. Something about how fuel is made to the requirements of local and federal laws.  Just a guess.  But I hope they provide a detailed letter.

Others apparently have gotten details so we shall see.

If not I will get a kit and play Mr Wizard as SHOdded suggested.

Shell is actually somewhat open to sharing information with the end consumer. I mean nothing too divulging. But you might get better than some generic correspondence.

FoMoCo, were you under the impression that you were blending E85 with unoxygenated V-Power?

I am an operator at a Shell distribution terminal. I can answer many questions about the process in general. And the business model. But it's very different state to state, region to region. So you may be at the mercy of whatever Shell's marketing group tells you. Heh

Yes, lol....fml

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on March 15, 2015, 06:58:24 PM
Yes, lol....fml

Why not use an ethanol tester? I bought one for $19 and it works great. Most of my base fuel is at 4-12%E

Which kit are you using, wasinger?

Quote from: wasinger3000 on March 16, 2015, 01:04:52 AM
Most of my base fuel is at 4-12%E

Goes to show you (& others) the wide, varying ranges of E that's out there at any given time.

Factor in regional differences therein.....

Makes matters worse when one starts mixing their own concoctions, not to mention phase separation issues from storage of those mixed solutions.

Good reason why I continue to shy away from E myself, and rely solely on a quality grade, ISO Standard produced Methanol.

Consistent. Reliable. Time and time again. Makes life sssssoooooo much easier and worry free.

Quote from: bpd1151 on March 16, 2015, 07:47:24 AM

Quote from: wasinger3000 on March 16, 2015, 01:04:52 AM
Most of my base fuel is at 4-12%E

Goes to show you (& others) the wide, varying ranges of E that's out there at any given time.

Factor in regional differences therein.....

Makes matters worse when one starts mixing their own concoctions, not to mention phase separation issues from storage of those mixed solutions.

Good reason why I continue to shy away from E myself, and rely solely on a quality grade, ISO Standard produced Methanol.

Consistent. Reliable. Time and time again. Makes life sssssoooooo much easier and worry free.

It is amazing how much it varies from one place to the next. I have a top tier fuel station that I fill up at and I did a fuel test for a few months. Found out 3 out of the 7 fill ups I did contained over 5% E the other 4 were at 0%. Although it was not advertised as pure gas. So I found that kinda cool although it was hit and miss. No consistency at all.

Quote from: SHOdded on March 16, 2015, 05:28:56 AM
Which kit are you using, wasinger?

I'll get a link. It's very simple. Add fuel to a set line, then add water, shake, let it settle, where the water line lands is your e%.

I'm fairly skeptical of the little phase separation based testers. I'm not sure what their claimed margin of error is, but it is a very unscientific form of analysis. And that's a significant reported spread.
While blend isn't analyized in-house very frequently, we have a 30K dollar piece of equipment to analyze EToH blend...just to offer some perspective. And I believe it is infrared and doesn't rely on full phase separation to occur to test the sample.

Anyway, here's the deal on varying E blends...

The oil companies are mandated by the Renewable Energy Standard to distribute X amount of renewables every year, a value which is always increasing, year to year. So, something like 95 percent of all gasoline distributed in the US has been oxygenated with ethanol, nearly all of which is at 10 percent blend. And while blending methods differ, typically either ratio blending or splash blending, they're both very reliable and accurate. And generally speaking, it just doesn't leave the terminal with some wild spec blend. I'm an operator at one of these terminals. If blend is out of spec, due to a mechanical issue or driver error, I don't release that product to the streets. Any terminal that isn't some hillbilly operation operates by similar standards. And remember, there isn't a wide margin for error, becasue the oil companies WANT the renewables in their fuels, to satisfy the governemnt standards.

All of that said, that doesn't mean conventional gasoline, without feedstock blending doesn't exist, isn't distributed. However, nearly all large urban areas require RBOB or CBOB distribution exclusively, both of which are blended with EToH (Reformulated/Conventional Blendstock for Oxygenate Blending). It really is regional. In areas like Austin, Houston, DFW and such, you won't find this phenomenon, as conventional may not be distributed anywhere in the immediate area. And the risk of selling conventionalal in an RFG, VOC/RVP regulated area outways any cost savings from hauling in conventional from outside of town. 

If you're finding erratic consistency in E percentage, it is purely at the fault of the retail station owner. He's taking in gas based on price, shopping the market with disregard to fuel type. So he may buy a truck load of E0 conventional or something and a week later buy the RFG E10 because it was cheaper.

There's only a handful of states which require labeling on gas dispensers. So most just toss the "Up to 10%" decals.

Maybe if you become friendly with the owner of the station, he will share details or BOL/manifests of his gas purchases.

Quote from: IHeartGroceries on March 16, 2015, 04:12:22 PM
I'm fairly skeptical of the little phase separation based testers. I'm not sure what their claimed margin of error is, but it is a very unscientific form of analysis. And that's a significant reported spread.
While blend isn't analyized in-house very frequently, we have a 30K dollar piece of equipment to analyze EToH blend...just to offer some perspective. And I believe it is infrared and doesn't rely on full phase separation to occur to test the sample.

Anyway, here's the deal on varying E blends...

The oil companies are mandated by the Renewable Energy Standard to distribute X amount of renewables every year, a value which is always increasing, year to year. So, something like 95 percent of all gasoline distributed in the US has been oxygenated with ethanol, nearly all of which is at 10 percent blend. And while blending methods differ, typically either ratio blending or splash blending, they're both very reliable and accurate. And generally speaking, it just doesn't leave the terminal with some wild spec blend. I'm an operator at one of these terminals. If blend is out of spec, due to a mechanical issue or driver error, I don't release that product to the streets. Any terminal that isn't some hillbilly operation operates by similar standards. And remember, there isn't a wide margin for error, becasue the oil companies WANT the renewables in their fuels, to satisfy the governemnt standards.

All of that said, that doesn't mean conventional gasoline, without feedstock blending doesn't exist, isn't distributed. However, nearly all large urban areas require RBOB or CBOB distribution exclusively, both of which are blended with EToH (Reformulated/Conventional Blendstock for Oxygenate Blending). It really is regional. In areas like Austin, Houston, DFW and such, you won't find this phenomenon, as conventional may not be distributed anywhere in the immediate area. And the risk of selling conventionalal in an RFG, VOC/RVP regulated area outways any cost savings from hauling in conventional from outside of town. 

If you're finding erratic consistency in E percentage, it is purely at the fault of the retail station owner. He's taking in gas based on price, shopping the market with disregard to fuel type. So he may buy a truck load of E0 conventional or something and a week later buy the RFG E10 because it was cheaper.

There's only a handful of states which require labeling on gas dispensers. So most just toss the "Up to 10%" decals.

Maybe if you become friendly with the owner of the station, he will share details or BOL/manifests of his gas purchases.

Excillent info! I wasn't expecting my little $19 tester to be remotely accurate. It more or less entertains my attempt to measure E%.

As for my local gas station owner, I know who he is and he's a @$$# bag. His dad used to put a garden hose in the fuel storage tank and add water to increase his profit. Till he got caught. I know his son is no better so I do not doubt he's buying the cheapest fuel he can find at the time. Idk how they can keep the "top tier" logo on the pumps. If that's even a thing anymore.

So the problem still remains for the consumer:  how do they rely on being provided a consistent product?  One bad link in the chain and you are done for.  And you assume that no more than 10% ethanol is in the fuel, how do you know it's not over?