2012+ timing job

buck91 · January 16, 2019, 12:15:56 PM

We have a 2014 explorer sport with the 3.5EB. It's throwing the p0016 as well as start up rattle. Curiously the code came well before the rattle. Anyways sounds like this is the much maligned timing chain job... this should have the newer style chains from the factory and has just under 100k. How common is this issue on the newer parts?

I've done a ton of reading and find some of the nuanced differences between years and models interesting. Is there anything I need to watch out for on this 2014? Best I can tell it's the same architecture as the other car based engines and not the same as the f150s.

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ZSHO · January 16, 2019, 03:43:59 PM

13+ Timing chain . Z

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdibDZpbWZnN19ZZEotQmxteVJPZHpXWWtEalY0/view?usp=drivesdk

Gray Brick · January 17, 2019, 12:21:44 PM

I am getting the start up rattle when cold for about 5 seconds, no trouble codes... car runs fantastic otherwise.

When I disconnect the VVT solenoid electrical connector the rattle is not occurring.

Do these solenoids go bad?

SHOdded · January 17, 2019, 06:40:15 PM

Sometimes, yes, not often. IDK if damage is already done to the timing chains, the rattle will grow worse. Track advance errors on the solenoids, they should be well under 5%, preferably close to 0. Sudden changes in load/speed are most challenging to implement quickly. While electronics can respond, their effectiveness is limited by physical element design.

ZSHO · January 17, 2019, 07:33:23 PM

Good article below on the
The 3.5L V6 (base) engine in the PI sedan use Twin independent Variable Cam Timing, Ti-VCT. That means all four cams are separately controlled by cam phasers and phase solenoids. (The four cams are one intake cam and one exhaust cam for both banks of the V6.) Ti-VCT, or variable valve timing, means each cam can be individually advanced or retarded (with respect to the crank and pistons) to produce the best power and the best fuel economy. Z

https://www.hendonpub.com/police_fleet_manager/articles/2012/1112/ford_nextgen_police_interceptor_tech_training_part

SHOdded · January 17, 2019, 08:14:40 PM

still the internal water pump tho, right?

ZSHO · January 17, 2019, 08:28:58 PM

I believe so! Z

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdiMTZ3a0wyU0JCYkZJN1ZTT3VEd3Fic09JNTlv/view?usp=drivesdk

Gray Brick · April 14, 2019, 12:37:31 AM

I changed my Variable Cam Timing Solenoid today...
No more start up rattle.

SHOdded · April 14, 2019, 01:19:15 AM

Did you take it apart like FTM shows on YT?

802SHO · April 14, 2019, 06:28:43 AM

Quote from: Gray Brick on April 14, 2019, 12:37:31 AM
I changed my Variable Cam Timing Solenoid today...
No more start up rattle.

I'm interested in seeing if this stops my start up rattle. From what little research I did...did you change bank 2 only?

Gray Brick · April 14, 2019, 10:56:14 AM

I only changed bank 1.

It was worth trying since the alternative is much more expensive.
A timing chain really should not stretch too much after 150k miles.

802SHO · April 14, 2019, 06:28:31 PM

Bank 2 is easier right ? My start up rattle is very oil sensitive. Its very much gone for first 2k miles on a new oil change then returns. Sitting over night in my garage will also nearly stop it from happening. Outside over night start up rattle always. If I start it up after an oil change quickly its really bad. Ive noticed if I let the car sit for 15 min or so after an oil change before I start it for the first time it is greatly shortened of charter. And I always prefill my oil filter.

802SHO · April 14, 2019, 06:37:05 PM

Isn't there such a thing as cold starting your vehicle? I read this somewhere once upon a time. You put the brake to the floor, gas pedal to the floor at the same time just before you press engine start....hold start and hold your pedals down....engine cranks over for as long as you hold it, priming the oil pump and let go of the gas pedal, starts up without any chatter. I've done this, it works. Why? Dunno

SHOdded · April 14, 2019, 08:25:13 PM

That startup rattle is momentary lack of oil pressure to the timing system. Which is why using filters with the Motorcraft style ADBV helps keep it to a minimum. Ester based oils can help reduce the occurrences also, as they are clingy, and using the correct weight oil (usually 5w30) to provide the cushioning film between metal surfaces. The filter design though has been important.

802SHO · April 15, 2019, 06:20:36 AM

I've stuck with motorcraft mostly and get the least occurances of chatter at start up with it. 5w20 my recommended oil weight and Ive tried 5w30 before, not sure it helped or not.

I've tried Fram Ultra and a WIX filter before and those were by far the worst for chatter.

Currently trying out a K&N filter with very good results. Comparible to the motorcraft filter although twice the money.

Will need to try changing the VCT solenoid and see if that further improves the chatter. I have never owned a car with chatter on start up before....I hate it.