Quote from: ZSHO on July 14, 2016, 01:52:59 PM
Definitely great advice from above...would add me a couple bottles of Heet,preferably the( yellow bottle) to the mix especially if you don't drive it much,are you using a TOP tier 93 octane gas station ? There are some places that have pure gas and here's the link.  Z      http://pure-gas.org/?stateprov=VA

I will give the fuel treatment a try... and unfortunately the other side of that strainer is worse... when I pulled it out initially I thought that ford had changed the strainers to some kind of charcoal based strainer...

I have a pure gas station about 10 miles from house.. Exon Mobile... only one in the area I am aware of... and charges like it too!

Quote from: sholxgt on July 14, 2016, 01:50:58 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 14, 2016, 01:35:25 PM

Quote from: sholxgt on July 14, 2016, 12:44:59 PM
Ever run higher concentrations of Ethanol?

I know that many love the stuff, but it's rough on fuel system components.  Wonder if the black goo of death is what took out your LPFP and some of it has migrated to your injector rail? 

Ethanol is especially rough on vehicles that aren't used often.  Boat owners have seen a huge rate of fuel system failures do to sitting even short periods of time with just the 10% ethanol pump gas.

The entire ecoboost fuel system was designed to run on E-85, the fuel components are fine.

The last year has seen my car sit for very long periods of time and there is no issue.

Even if the fuel system components are OK with Ethanol, they don't like black goo.  It has happened across all platforms regardless of make/model.  Even happens in factory E85 vehicles.

There are theories that it's in relation to how the ethanol is interacting with the gasoline additives.  Also theories that it's related to certain fuel brands and/or locations.

No fuel system is happy trying to pass the black goo.  It would not surprise me, based on the looks of that strainer, if the rest of the fuel system is partially coated.  Seems like a quality, in tank, fuel system treatment might be a good idea to try in this case.

There are also theories about vapors eating the fuel lines, vapor seeping through lines eating the stainless braid, fuel boiling, etc. Then again there are plenty of flex fuel vehicles on the road without any issues. I'm not saying there can't be an issue, but its not one I've had any issue with over 2 cars with blends from E-20 to E-80.

I've not seen folks having issues with lower blends...for example the mazdaspeed guys start having issues at 40-50%. Their hardware is also different than ours.

Based on my recent experiences tuning with non top tier vs top tier I would recommend that everyone, especially us corn junkies use top tier with your corn. I think there really is something to the expensive additive packs.

I wonder if there are enough differences between the '10-'12 and '13+ fuel systems to cause an issue with ethanol in earlier MYs.  That would be a dig to find that info!

Quote from: SHOdded on July 14, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
I wonder if there are enough differences between the '10-'12 and '13+ fuel systems to cause an issue with ethanol in earlier MYs.  That would be a dig to find that info!

The only difference I can find is the LPFP.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 14, 2016, 04:03:35 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 14, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
I wonder if there are enough differences between the '10-'12 and '13+ fuel systems to cause an issue with ethanol in earlier MYs.  That would be a dig to find that info!

The only difference I can find is the LPFP.

How are you achieving 2700 psi at the fuel rail?


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Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 14, 2016, 04:25:05 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 14, 2016, 04:03:35 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 14, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
I wonder if there are enough differences between the '10-'12 and '13+ fuel systems to cause an issue with ethanol in earlier MYs.  That would be a dig to find that info!

The only difference I can find is the LPFP.

How are you achieving 2700 psi at the fuel rail?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have an excellent tuner.

I've been saying for a while that the fuel system is plenty capable but was being limited by Ford and it seems he figured it out

I know the conventional wisdom says FRP drops are normal.

But if you are commanding 2150 and only getting 1200, I would disagree. The last thing I want when boost and spark is spiking is rail pressure dropping.

There are all kinds of issues when your rail pressure drops, atomization suffers which causes wall wetting, which can cause knock.

Turning on torque management will help but not completely fix the issue.

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 14, 2016, 04:56:18 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 14, 2016, 04:25:05 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 14, 2016, 04:03:35 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 14, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
I wonder if there are enough differences between the '10-'12 and '13+ fuel systems to cause an issue with ethanol in earlier MYs.  That would be a dig to find that info!

The only difference I can find is the LPFP.

How are you achieving 2700 psi at the fuel rail?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have an excellent tuner.

I've been saying for a while that the fuel system is plenty capable but was being limited by Ford and it seems he figured it out

I know the conventional wisdom says FRP drops are normal.

But if you are commanding 2150 and only getting 1200, I would disagree. The last thing I want when boost and spark is spiking is rail pressure dropping.

There are all kinds of issues when your rail pressure drops, atomization suffers which causes wall wetting, which can cause knock.

Turning on torque management will help but not completely fix the issue.

I have combed the forums and have pulled quite a bit of datalogs from other SHO owners. Every single one of them shows fuel rail pressure dropping around 4700 rpms after a shift change, some worse than others. There is one that is an exception and it appears to be a whole different beasty.. I am not sure which tunes or who tuned the various datalogs I have but they all have similar characteristics in the FRP...

I would imagin if someone has figured out how to "unlock" the software limitations on the HPFP to command 2700PSI or better then thats a significant modification. They could probably corner the market on ecoboost tuning.

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 14, 2016, 05:50:59 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 14, 2016, 04:56:18 PM

Quote from: StealBlueSho on July 14, 2016, 04:25:05 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on July 14, 2016, 04:03:35 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on July 14, 2016, 03:27:56 PM
I wonder if there are enough differences between the '10-'12 and '13+ fuel systems to cause an issue with ethanol in earlier MYs.  That would be a dig to find that info!

The only difference I can find is the LPFP.

How are you achieving 2700 psi at the fuel rail?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I have an excellent tuner.

I've been saying for a while that the fuel system is plenty capable but was being limited by Ford and it seems he figured it out

I know the conventional wisdom says FRP drops are normal.

But if you are commanding 2150 and only getting 1200, I would disagree. The last thing I want when boost and spark is spiking is rail pressure dropping.

There are all kinds of issues when your rail pressure drops, atomization suffers which causes wall wetting, which can cause knock.

Turning on torque management will help but not completely fix the issue.

I have combed the forums and have pulled quite a bit of datalogs from other SHO owners. Every single one of them shows fuel rail pressure dropping around 4700 rpms after a shift change, some worse than others. There is one that is an exception and it appears to be a whole different beasty.. I am not sure which tunes or who tuned the various datalogs I have but they all have similar characteristics in the FRP...

I would imagin if someone has figured out how to "unlock" the software limitations on the HPFP to command 2700PSI or better then thats a significant modification. They could probably corner the market on ecoboost tuning.

There were a few mechanical limitersput on the hpfp that can limit the output that are easily changed with scalars in the tune...it seems even the 10-12 cars benefit from this also.

In addition to that, most if not all of the logs you have seen exibit the rail pressure drop at upshifts because of the inherent problem of load/boost spikes at the shifts....the load spikes deplete the rail quickly....control the load spikes, then u can control fuel pressure dips

Commanding 2700 at most times can be easy but i wouldnt want that much sustained pressure...2000-2200 is fine...the 2500+ is usually happening at run out times like when you have 2200 and then close the throttle


I have quite a few logs thati can post showing stable fuel pressure..maybe tonight i can post some screen shots

But obviously if boost is spiking to 240 kpa that will tax the fuel system 

I just went back and read the thread...beeen a little busy and missed it but if you hit 22 psi and it was a spike that is extremely tough on rail pressure...1250 is getting low...i call 1000 danger zone but now with some of the changes ive made and seeing what is possible, i really see no reason at maderately aggressive boost of 16psi to tolerate less than 1800 ish

Also at low rpm its hard for the hpfp to make pressure because its basically a mechanical pump that needs rpm but if tuned well 15 psi boost at 2500 rpm is fine

Pm me ur email and ill look at a log if you'd like and i can tell you what i see....you most likely wont like it though....especially if you are spiking to 255 kpa....your spark tables most likely  arent even set up for that so you are relying on the knock sensors to pull the spark

That all makes sense and I am curious as to how to control the load spikes at the up shift.. in short, my trims and AFR go to crap when the ecu tries to compensate for those spikes. I have talked to my tuner about them... maybe I will address it again.. and run some fuel cleaner in the meantime...



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Something else, usually when rail drops and boost spikes that doesnt mean stft's go up....the ecu knows that pressure is down and knows that load has spiked...it cranks up injectors duty cycle.....when the ecu is adding fuel with the 02 sensors and trims it means something unexpected is going on....when pressure falls and boost spikes it knows that and makes the adjustments.

If you exceed what the map can see that can cause trims to rise because it DOESNT know that boost

I also wonder if your 02 sensor is bad

If you are hitting 255 kpa then fuel cleaner wont help...you are running the piss out of it....control spikes with throttle like ford does

Quote from: AJP turbo on July 14, 2016, 08:42:26 PM
Something else, usually when rail drops and boost spikes that doesnt mean stft's go up....the ecu knows that pressure is down and knows that load has spiked...it cranks up injectors duty cycle.....when the ecu is adding fuel with the 02 sensors and trims it means something unexpected is going on....when pressure falls and boost spikes it knows that and makes the adjustments.

If you exceed what the map can see that can cause trims to rise because it DOESNT know that boost

I also wonder if your 02 sensor is bad

Swapped WB O2 sensors out with new ones, didn't change a thing.

Have you checked out the Ford service OBD summary.  Z      http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1001.pdf

Quote from: ZSHO on July 14, 2016, 09:53:17 PM
Have you checked out the Ford service OBD summary.  Z      http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1001.pdf

That is a fantastic document, thank you!

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