Ecoboost Performance Forum

Ecoboost Performance => General Discussion => Topic started by: TimmyATL on June 02, 2015, 03:41:24 PM

Title: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: TimmyATL on June 02, 2015, 03:41:24 PM
Ok so with the AWD system when inputs to the PCM are correct it sends a signal to the AWD module to command( pulse with modulation ) the Active Torque Coupling which brings in power to the rear end. How fast does this happen once the PCM sees the front wheels slipping (say at a launch at the drag strip) and sends signals for the AWD module to bring in the rear unit. With this being said if at the drag strip and you are able to command on the ATC to 100% which enguages the rear end right off the get go should you be able reduce what front tire spin you do get and launch harder. Just food for thought.
Title: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: slurppie on June 02, 2015, 03:58:16 PM
If your asking how fast the rear engages, there was a video I believe on this site where a guy captured a slow motion video of him launching in sand. I don't think the front completed half a revolution before the rear end engaged.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SHOnUup on June 02, 2015, 04:48:56 PM
Using torque pro and the awd % gauge, while brake boosting it was pre-loading 75% to the rears before launch.

Rich

Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: glock-coma on June 02, 2015, 05:20:29 PM
I believe this is the video you talking about

http://youtu.be/utkvSHeuzlo
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: slurppie on June 02, 2015, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: glock-coma on June 02, 2015, 05:20:29 PM
I believe this is the video you talking about



That would be the one - thanks Glock.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SVTPete83 on June 02, 2015, 08:18:09 PM
Quote from: glock-coma on June 02, 2015, 05:20:29 PM
I believe this is the video you talking about

http://youtu.be/utkvSHeuzlo
That might be the most annoying music I have ever heard in a video. That being said my count of front tire rotations might be different. I got 1.75 approximately before the rears started kicking sand.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: Frozen Taurus on June 02, 2015, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: SVTPete83 on June 02, 2015, 08:18:09 PM
Quote from: glock-coma on June 02, 2015, 05:20:29 PM
I believe this is the video you talking about

http://youtu.be/utkvSHeuzlo (http://youtu.be/utkvSHeuzlo)
That might be the most annoying music I have ever heard in a video. That being said my count of front tire rotations might be different. I got 1.75 approximately before the rears started kicking sand.

Can't assume though that the rear tires aren't engaged before that point ...too many variables to consider.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SVTPete83 on June 02, 2015, 09:13:13 PM
Agreed. If the distribution was rear biased on a power break though,  the rears would spin right off the launch ya?
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: Frozen Taurus on June 02, 2015, 09:15:04 PM
Quote from: SVTPete83 on June 02, 2015, 09:13:13 PM
Agreed. If the distribution was rear biased on a power break though,  the rears would spin right off the launch ya?

Correct this is definitely a front biased setup  >:(
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SVTPete83 on June 02, 2015, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Frozen Taurus on June 02, 2015, 09:15:04 PM
Quote from: SVTPete83 on June 02, 2015, 09:13:13 PM
Agreed. If the distribution was rear biased on a power break though,  the rears would spin right off the launch ya?

Correct this is definitely a front biased setup  >:(
I get that. But then I read this...
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 02, 2015, 04:48:56 PM
Using torque pro and the awd % gauge, while brake boosting it was pre-loading 75% to the rears before launch.

Rich
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SHOnUup on June 02, 2015, 09:23:08 PM
75%, as in 75% of what the rear will take. Not 75% of the overall power.

Rich

Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on June 02, 2015, 10:31:51 PM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 02, 2015, 09:23:08 PM
75%, as in 75% of what the rear will take. Not 75% of the overall power.

Rich

I'm not sure that is correct on 2013+

I think we may have gotten the Gen 3 jtekt hence the addition of Torque vectoring.

Under heavy throttle, the majority of the power goes to the rear, at least initially.

During lift or very light throttle, the front isn't even active, and during any aggressive throttle input, the rear gets power first.

I feel like the FWD bias is only true if you are driving normally, hammer it and its a completely different animal.

Pretty much everything I felt going on in the 2013 and 2015 is backed up with the new gauge. People love to hate on our AWD, but I think it is a marvel of technology.






Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: wasinger3000 on June 02, 2015, 11:34:42 PM
The video may not be "brake boosting" either. I noticed on my gauge I will not get power transfer to the rear as fast unless I brake boost.

I have managed to slide the tail out a little under hard throttle into corner. So I know there is enough power there to spin the tires slightly.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: glock-coma on June 03, 2015, 09:47:06 AM
I can understand that you can send power to the rear via the torque coupling. But the drive shaft is driven by the PTU and the PTU is driven by the right side cv shaft. So how would you send LESS power to the front and more to the rear if the rear is driven by the front?
Unless there's some kind of active braking involved like in the Acura's SHAWD which I don't think the 13+ have.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: jtoddk98 on June 03, 2015, 09:50:38 AM
Here's another launch. 13 SHO https://youtube.com/watch?v=hGRALV-vQ1c


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Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on June 03, 2015, 10:54:45 AM
Quote from: glock-coma on June 03, 2015, 09:47:06 AM
I can understand that you can send power to the rear via the torque coupling. But the drive shaft is driven by the PTU and the PTU is driven by the right side cv shaft. So how would you send LESS power to the front and more to the rear if the rear is driven by the front?
Unless there's some kind of active braking involved like in the Acura's SHAWD which I don't think the 13+ have.
They do...

"Nothing much has changed in the powertrain department (nothing needed to), but another alleged dynamic enhancement is an electronic torque-vectoring system, wherein light brake pressure on an inside wheel during acceleration out of a curve is meant to shunt some torque through the open differential to the outside wheel"

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1203_2013_ford_taurus_sho_first_drive/#ixzz3c0j4FLpE (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1203_2013_ford_taurus_sho_first_drive/#ixzz3c0j4FLpE)
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SHOdded on June 03, 2015, 11:03:26 AM
Good clip!  Though it might be different at brake launch if the logic compensates.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: glock-coma on June 03, 2015, 11:12:56 AM
That's funny. In the article they actually reference it to the Acura's SHAWD, 
I stand corrected.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: glock-coma on June 03, 2015, 11:30:20 AM
Another question, does the torque vectoring turn off when you activate track mode? Or turn the traction control completely off?
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: TimmyATL on June 03, 2015, 12:28:08 PM
I think one way to know is to access the AWD module and monitor the ATC  PID (paramiter identification) and see if it is a On/Off display or a percentage and do a pull and see what it reads. I do not think you can monitor the wheel speed sensors from this module so you will half to listen to the front tires for spin and seat of your pants feel when launching. Then command the ATC PID to 100% and repeat to see what happens or goes snap/crackle or pop LOL. The only way I see how this can be done is with Ford IDS software. I just started this topic to see if anyone was thinking the same thing I was. Fodd for thought
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on June 03, 2015, 01:23:44 PM
Quote from: TimmyATL on June 03, 2015, 12:28:08 PM
I think one way to know is to access the AWD module and monitor the ATC  PID (paramiter identification) and see if it is a On/Off display or a percentage and do a pull and see what it reads. I do not think you can monitor the wheel speed sensors from this module so you will half to listen to the front tires for spin and seat of your pants feel when launching. Then command the ATC PID to 100% and repeat to see what happens or goes snap/crackle or pop LOL. The only way I see how this can be done is with Ford IDS software. I just started this topic to see if anyone was thinking the same thing I was. Fodd for thought
Troubleshooting AWD binding consists of commanding 90%  torque to the ATC through IDS then driving in a circle....
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: TimmyATL on June 03, 2015, 01:32:16 PM
Yes I understand PPT A  in section 308-07A Four Wheel Drive (4WD) Systems. I was just wondering if anyone has thought to see if commanding the ATC on and doing a brake boost lauch would get the car to hook better than it already does or lauch harder.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on June 03, 2015, 01:38:56 PM
"The stability-control system can send 100% of the available torque to the front or rear wheels if needed."

http://articles.sae.org/10803/ (http://articles.sae.org/10803/)
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: FoMoCoSHO on June 03, 2015, 02:05:42 PM
The above article and the experiences with the shiny new gauge lead me to believe we did receive the upgraded JTekt in 2013

http://www.jtekt-na.com/assets/ce/Documents/%28D1002ex%29%20ITCC%20-%20Intelligent%20Tourque%20Controlled%20Coupling.pdf (http://www.jtekt-na.com/assets/ce/Documents/%28D1002ex%29%20ITCC%20-%20Intelligent%20Tourque%20Controlled%20Coupling.pdf)

I emailed them with specific questions but have yet to hear back.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: sunwolf on June 03, 2015, 02:22:20 PM
Quote from: TimmyATL on June 03, 2015, 12:28:08 PM
I think one way to know is to access the AWD module and monitor the ATC  PID (paramiter identification) and see if it is a On/Off display or a percentage and do a pull and see what it reads. I do not think you can monitor the wheel speed sensors from this module so you will half to listen to the front tires for spin and seat of your pants feel when launching. Then command the ATC PID to 100% and repeat to see what happens or goes snap/crackle or pop LOL. The only way I see how this can be done is with Ford IDS software. I just started this topic to see if anyone was thinking the same thing I was. Fodd for thought
I tried commanding the AWD clutch using forscan. It turned my AWD off completely no matter what percentage I set it to. The car really lights them up with only FWD.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SHOnUup on June 03, 2015, 08:13:30 PM
Quote from: sunwolf on June 03, 2015, 02:22:20 PM
Quote from: TimmyATL on June 03, 2015, 12:28:08 PM
I think one way to know is to access the AWD module and monitor the ATC  PID (paramiter identification) and see if it is a On/Off display or a percentage and do a pull and see what it reads. I do not think you can monitor the wheel speed sensors from this module so you will half to listen to the front tires for spin and seat of your pants feel when launching. Then command the ATC PID to 100% and repeat to see what happens or goes snap/crackle or pop LOL. The only way I see how this can be done is with Ford IDS software. I just started this topic to see if anyone was thinking the same thing I was. Fodd for thought
I tried commanding the AWD clutch using forscan. It turned my AWD off completely no matter what percentage I set it to. The car really lights them up with only FWD.
I need video proof Mike...seeing is believing...lol

Rich

Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: sunwolf on June 03, 2015, 11:36:27 PM
Maybe one weekend if we run into eachother.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SHOnUup on June 04, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: sunwolf on June 03, 2015, 11:36:27 PM
Maybe one weekend if we run into eachother.
Just messing with ya...I'm thinking Milan soon.

Rich

Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: wasinger3000 on June 04, 2015, 09:24:34 AM
"Other enhancements include auxiliary oil coolers and a double-size radiator compared to the consumer models' as well as special heavy-duty shocks, springs,"

Wonder if I could get my hands on those shocks.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: sunwolf on June 04, 2015, 09:50:10 AM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 04, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: sunwolf on June 03, 2015, 11:36:27 PM
Maybe one weekend if we run into eachother.
Just messing with ya...I'm thinking Milan soon.

Rich

I need to get my downpipes sorted first. I was going to take the car to LME on Saturday but they haven't called me back to let me make an appointment yet.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: SHOnUup on June 04, 2015, 10:09:48 AM
Livernois is usually at least a 30 day wait on labor...very busy place

Rich

Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: ZSHO on June 04, 2015, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: sunwolf on June 04, 2015, 09:50:10 AM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 04, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: sunwolf on June 03, 2015, 11:36:27 PM
Maybe one weekend if we run into eachother.
Just messing with ya...I'm thinking Milan soon.

Rich

I need to get my downpipes sorted first. I was going to take the car to LME on Saturday but they haven't called me back to let me make an appointment yet.
You can try sending an email to Steve,he's in charge of installations and really is a cool guy. Z    sgorecki@livernoismotorsports.com
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: sunwolf on June 04, 2015, 11:19:54 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on June 04, 2015, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: sunwolf on June 04, 2015, 09:50:10 AM
Quote from: SHOnUup on June 04, 2015, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: sunwolf on June 03, 2015, 11:36:27 PM
Maybe one weekend if we run into eachother.
Just messing with ya...I'm thinking Milan soon.

Rich

I need to get my downpipes sorted first. I was going to take the car to LME on Saturday but they haven't called me back to let me make an appointment yet.
You can try sending an email to Steve,he's in charge of installations and really is a cool guy. Z    sgorecki@livernoismotorsports.com
I left him a voice mail yesterday. If he does not respond by today I will send an email.
Title: Re: AWD and Active Torque Control
Post by: ShoBoat on June 04, 2015, 12:15:09 PM

Quote from: glock-coma on June 03, 2015, 11:30:20 AM
Another question, does the torque vectoring turn off when you activate track mode? Or turn the traction control completely off?

I think that the torque vectoring control cannot be turned off. I remember reading that somewhere.


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