Took the car in this morning. I am going to have them replace the Wastegates, the wastegate controller cable thingy, and the solenoid to fix the over boosting\uncontrolled boosting Brad saw.
Also doing both the primary O2 sensors ..
/crossed fingers/ xx
I would say the wide-Band 02 sensor is a common fault especially being a My2010!!.
It probably needs changing without compromise IMO.
Best of luck and keep us updated. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on November 13, 2017, 12:41:08 PM
I would say the wide-Band 02 sensor is a common fault especially being a My2010!!.
It probably needs changing without compromise IMO.
Best of luck and keep us updated. Z
Wideband = Primary O2 ? or did i miss a part to add ?
Quote from: TopherSho on November 13, 2017, 12:48:22 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on November 13, 2017, 12:41:08 PM
I would say the wide-Band 02 sensor is a common fault especially being a My2010!!.
It probably needs changing without compromise IMO.
Best of luck and keep us updated. Z
Wideband = Primary O2 ? or did i miss a part to add ?
Primary 02 sensors = wide-band! Z
*whew* Thanks Z :)
The primary o2s in obdii systems are precat and used for the actual work the engine does. The secondary or postcat sensors are minions of the EPA lol, monitoring efficiency of the cats. So the secondaries need not be wideband, do not sample as often, and are usually cheaper than the primaries.
Update#1
as expected, Ford has no clue. Were replacing the O2's today and the full boost-solenoid + boost control connectors + all the hoses attached next week.
as expected the wastegates are non-replaceable according to ford and are 750$ each.
So we ill replace the O2 and the boost control bits and cross more fingers. trying to be positive but have a sinking feeling i'm still in for more work and another 1600$
Squid has been ordered. (Boost solenoid + all hoses + both electronic wastegate controller cables.) for is taking forever to get my s*** ... sigh
tbc ..
Squid, ha! Reminds me of the Matrix.
Quote from: SHOdded on November 22, 2017, 10:13:42 AM
Squid, ha! Reminds me of the Matrix.
Manu it reminded more of the movie Octopussy .Lmao. Z :D
Quote from: TopherSho on November 22, 2017, 09:39:56 AM
Squid has been ordered. (Boost solenoid + all hoses + both electronic wastegate controller cables.) for is taking forever to get my s*** ... sigh
tbc ..
I just got my car sorted since turbo first failed in april. Ford can take forever. Is this all out of pocket? I'd consider different wastegates if you end up replacing them. That price sounds pretty high, is it parts only cost?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Yeah out of pocket. because there are no codes.. the Route66 insurance folks wont cover costs. As to the wastegates, ford does not replace them, only the full turbo.
To be honest i was not shocked by the waste-gate being a full turbo replacement. keeping two bins full of parts is more costly than one bin full of more expensive parts. and on average i bet these tiny little turbos eat themselves way more often than just blowing out a wastegate.
since it will be out of pocket for the turbos if it comes down to that, I will see about having a speed shop do it and drop in ATPS.. no sense in going better and bigger for about 200$ more.
Quote from: TopherSho on November 22, 2017, 12:55:54 PM
Yeah out of pocket. because there are no codes.. the Route66 insurance folks wont cover costs. As to the wastegates, ford does not replace them, only the full turbo.
To be honest i was not shocked by the waste-gate being a full turbo replacement. keeping two bins full of parts is more costly than one bin full of more expensive parts. and on average i bet these tiny little turbos eat themselves way more often than just blowing out a wastegate.
since it will be out of pocket for the turbos if it comes down to that, I will see about having a speed shop do it and drop in ATPS.. no sense in going better and bigger for about 200$ more.
Well.. not the boost solenoid.. replaced it + hoses + electronic wastgate cables.
No joy
the ford shop manager has agreed to do a IDs mobile log. So he/they can see the behavior first hand on their own system.. its going to be wastegates .. but i'd like to hear them say that before i tell the wife i need 1600$
As long as it gets figured out. Like an itch you can't scratch ...
How about the primary 02 sensors! Z
Quote from: ZSHO on December 05, 2017, 07:58:39 AM
How about the primary 02 sensors! Z
We did them 1st as Brad noted he was seeing the o2 readings 'flatline' .. i have not looked at the stft's but i am sure they are fine now.
We need to find and solve the overboost issue before i loose my mind... being patient is REALLY hard for me.
Anyone else have any thoughts on overboosting without error codes besides bad wastegates .. ?
Quote from: TopherSho on December 05, 2017, 11:18:11 AM
Anyone else have any thoughts on overboosting without error codes besides bad wastegates .. ?
My issue was an underboost with no codes, but was most likely due to the wastegates. I changed the solenoid, no change. Swapped back to OE hotpipes, no change. Played with tune changes, nothing. it had to have been a bad wastegate or turbo.
Good luck!
Did you swap them out and fix it?
Quote from: TopherSho on December 05, 2017, 01:38:32 PM
Did you swap them out and fix it?
Unfortunately my SHO got totaled before I was able to fix the issue. As such, I never got it solved.
DOH
Quote from: derfdog15 on December 05, 2017, 01:49:50 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on December 05, 2017, 01:38:32 PM
Did you swap them out and fix it?
Unfortunately my SHO got totaled before I was able to fix the issue. As such, I never got it solved.
I would say it got solved :P although not quite in a desirable way ...
update, My dealership still sucks. They cannot diagnose the wastegates. even on OEM tune. they see the spark go from 16 degrees to -0- instantly at 5500 rpm, and do it REPEATEDLY, all while bucking the car and making horrible noises. no frigging codes the entire time.
now it has developed a starting issue. accessories come one, 'push to start' lights up. press the brake and hit start the car goes through the motions but the starter motor doesn't 'turn'.. no codes occur. if i stop it and do it again it tries to kill me by pushing the driver seat ALL the way up.. super weird.
starting to get really frustrated.
When the spark drops that low is it during an UPSHIFT? When you get torque source 7 which is shifting torque reduction you will see really low spark...That's part of how the ECU will control the power for the shift
But the bucking and noises don't sound normal obviously
Congrats to Oregon! I see your glorious politicians deemed you qualified to pump your own gas.
Oregonians now freaking out, lmao!
Na, we're WAY before the upshift. 4500+ it will start bucking .. 5500 it is super bad and it just keeps doing it all the way to 6100 then it will upshift.
In the log we do not see misfires or tq errors just like the log you had while tuned.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on December 31, 2017, 07:35:26 PM
Congrats to Oregon! I see your glorious politicians deemed you qualified to pump your own gas.
Oregonians now freaking out, lmao!
Oh contraire mon frere.. :( it is for counties with very small populations only. So I can't run an e30 tune yet.
What is their reasoning for that? City folks not smart enough?
You've got meth. You should just run full E85.
Im minus meth and enjoying my E85.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on December 31, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
What is their reasoning for that? City folks not smart enough?
You've got meth. You should just run full E85.
Im minus meth and enjoying my E85.
my 2010 would need the new Livernois pump, and probably new injectors. I would love that :) ... buuuut it is a bit out of the budget, 'specialy since about to drop 2000-3000$ to get the damn turbos swapped out of pocket since we are not getting codes.
As to the pump your own, It is the general idiocy that if there is a full service side it will ''cost more''. Apparently paying 1$ more per fill is
is just to much to pay...
Quote from: TopherSho on December 31, 2017, 09:23:40 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on December 31, 2017, 07:56:02 PM
What is their reasoning for that? City folks not smart enough?
You've got meth. You should just run full E85.
Im minus meth and enjoying my E85.
my 2010 would need the new Livernois pump, and probably new injectors. I would love that :) ... buuuut it is a bit out of the budget, 'specialy since about to drop 2000-3000$ to get the damn turbos swapped out of pocket since we are not getting codes.
As to the pump your own, It is the general idiocy that if there is a full service side it will ''cost more''. Apparently paying 1$ more per fill is is just to much to pay...
I'm not running any of that...Fuel system hardware is unchanged through the years with the exception of the in tank pump change in 2013. Injector o-rings were upgraded in 2014.
If you wanna run pig rich you've got meth to fatten it up.
Starting issues, weird stuff driver seat going back, all crazy stuff mine did when the battery started going bad.....
Quote from: avidmotion on January 01, 2018, 02:10:26 AM
Starting issues, weird stuff driver seat going back, all crazy stuff mine did when the battery started going bad.....
hmpf i just replaced it this year. it had better not go tits up .. i'd be vastly annoyed
Any possibility it is the knock sensors/wiring? Since knock data is master & commander.
Quote from: SHOdded on January 01, 2018, 09:10:23 AM
Any possibility it is the knock sensors/wiring? Since knock data is master & commander.
so far we have not seen any knock spikes. it is super consistent:
-if you have NOT got on it recently .. it will generate boost correctly for a short time .. then it will start bucking, popping, after 4500+ rpm
-if you get on it right away after it has been bucking and dropping spark it does it instantly
-we see over boosting in the logs
i think there is a hole in one or both baffles. and once air gets on the other side it cant open the wastegate enough and it starts dropping spark to keep from blowing up.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 01, 2018, 02:16:21 AM
Quote from: avidmotion on January 01, 2018, 02:10:26 AM
Starting issues, weird stuff driver seat going back, all crazy stuff mine did when the battery started going bad.....
hmpf i just replaced it this year. it had better not go tits up .. i'd be vastly annoyed
Did you put a bigger battery in? Both of my SHOs went through batteries like it was their job. The Lincoln got an MC 850(It died too, lol.) and so far so good.
Are you logging system voltage during logging?
Noise and bucking also sounds like TC/ESP intervention (ABS is noisy)
I'm thinking a bad wheel speed sensor could cause false intervention?
That should show in Torque Source though....
Do you have Spark and Fuel source PIDS? The Lincoln does not but that might help if your strategy does.
Boost Control
The boost control system determines a desired boost. Active control occurs when the desired boost is
above base boost where base boost is defined as that boost that results when the wastegate vent solenoid is not
venting (circuit off).
The following conditions may result in underboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck open
•
Large conduit leak between compressor and throttle
The following conditions may result in overboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck closed
•
One or more control hoses leaking/disconnected between wastegate diaphragm and wastegate vent
solenoid.
•
Wastegate vent solenoid stuck in vent position
•
Control hoses to wastegate vent solenoid swapped.
•
Hose between boost volume and wastegate vent solenoid disconnected.
•
Not-yet-detected Turbocharger Boost sensor in-range failure.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 02:14:32 PM
The following conditions may result in overboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck closed <---likely not opening fully. not sure if there are pids for actual and requested.
•
One or more control hoses leaking/disconnected between wastegate diaphragm and wastegate vent
solenoid. <--- possible leak.. but i feel it a leak would have issues lower down as well as at WoT..?? am i wrong?
•
Wastegate vent solenoid stuck in vent position <---possible.
•
Control hoses to wastegate vent solenoid swapped. <--- doubt this one. no mods were made prior to failure.
•
Hose between boost volume and wastegate vent solenoid disconnected. <---will have ford look at the hoses.
•
Not-yet-detected Turbocharger Boost sensor in-range failure. <---possible but i think it is the diaphragm as Brad mentioned.
it is not starting again so its going back to the shop. while it is in i will have them replace all the hoses that come off the turbos and wastegates. after that im hosed.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 01, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 02:14:32 PM
The following conditions may result in overboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck closed <---likely not opening fully. not sure if there are pids for actual and requested.
•
One or more control hoses leaking/disconnected between wastegate diaphragm and wastegate vent
solenoid. <--- possible leak.. but i feel it a leak would have issues lower down as well as at WoT..?? am i wrong?
•
Wastegate vent solenoid stuck in vent position <---possible.
•
Control hoses to wastegate vent solenoid swapped. <--- doubt this one. no mods were made prior to failure.
•
Hose between boost volume and wastegate vent solenoid disconnected. <---will have ford look at the hoses.
•
Not-yet-detected Turbocharger Boost sensor in-range failure. <---possible but i think it is the diaphragm as Brad mentioned.
it is not starting again so its going back to the shop. while it is in i will have them replace all the hoses that come off the turbos and wastegates. after that im hosed.
I have a bypass on/off PID...dunno if that's any help
Did anyone get on the phone with the Hotline?
Quote from: TopherSho on January 01, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 02:14:32 PM
The following conditions may result in overboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck closed <---likely not opening fully. not sure if there are pids for actual and requested.
•
One or more control hoses leaking/disconnected between wastegate diaphragm and wastegate vent
solenoid. <--- possible leak.. but i feel it a leak would have issues lower down as well as at WoT..?? am i wrong?
•
Wastegate vent solenoid stuck in vent position <---possible.
•
Control hoses to wastegate vent solenoid swapped. <--- doubt this one. no mods were made prior to failure.
•
Hose between boost volume and wastegate vent solenoid disconnected. <---will have ford look at the hoses.
•
Not-yet-detected Turbocharger Boost sensor in-range failure. <---possible but i think it is the diaphragm as Brad mentioned.
it is not starting again so its going back to the shop. while it is in i will have them replace all the hoses that come off the turbos and wastegates. after that im hosed.
No crank condition?
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 04:34:20 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 01, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 02:14:32 PM
The following conditions may result in overboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck closed <---likely not opening fully. not sure if there are pids for actual and requested.
•
One or more control hoses leaking/disconnected between wastegate diaphragm and wastegate vent
solenoid. <--- possible leak.. but i feel it a leak would have issues lower down as well as at WoT..?? am i wrong?
•
Wastegate vent solenoid stuck in vent position <---possible.
•
Control hoses to wastegate vent solenoid swapped. <--- doubt this one. no mods were made prior to failure.
•
Hose between boost volume and wastegate vent solenoid disconnected. <---will have ford look at the hoses.
•
Not-yet-detected Turbocharger Boost sensor in-range failure. <---possible but i think it is the diaphragm as Brad mentioned.
it is not starting again so its going back to the shop. while it is in i will have them replace all the hoses that come off the turbos and wastegates. after that im hosed.
I have a bypass on/off PID...dunno if that's any help
Did anyone get on the phone with the Hotline?
I don't think so. so far if it doesn't have a code they are playing dumb.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 01, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 02:14:32 PM
The following conditions may result in overboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck closed <---likely not opening fully. not sure if there are pids for actual and requested.
•
One or more control hoses leaking/disconnected between wastegate diaphragm and wastegate vent
solenoid. <--- possible leak.. but i feel it a leak would have issues lower down as well as at WoT..?? am i wrong?
•
Wastegate vent solenoid stuck in vent position <---possible.
•
Control hoses to wastegate vent solenoid swapped. <--- doubt this one. no mods were made prior to failure.
•
Hose between boost volume and wastegate vent solenoid disconnected. <---will have ford look at the hoses.
•
Not-yet-detected Turbocharger Boost sensor in-range failure. <---possible but i think it is the diaphragm as Brad mentioned.
it is not starting again so its going back to the shop. while it is in i will have them replace all the hoses that come off the turbos and wastegates. after that im hosed.
No crank condition?
exactly. no codes, no crank attempt at all. it goes through all the motions like it did start. sweeps the tach, cycles the air, etc. it worked all day yesterday no issues. this morning to cranking at all.
Fried PCM? No codes found can be a symptom.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 01, 2018, 06:42:55 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 04:34:20 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 01, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 01, 2018, 02:14:32 PM
The following conditions may result in overboost.
•
One or more wastegates stuck closed <---likely not opening fully. not sure if there are pids for actual and requested.
•
One or more control hoses leaking/disconnected between wastegate diaphragm and wastegate vent
solenoid. <--- possible leak.. but i feel it a leak would have issues lower down as well as at WoT..?? am i wrong?
•
Wastegate vent solenoid stuck in vent position <---possible.
•
Control hoses to wastegate vent solenoid swapped. <--- doubt this one. no mods were made prior to failure.
•
Hose between boost volume and wastegate vent solenoid disconnected. <---will have ford look at the hoses.
•
Not-yet-detected Turbocharger Boost sensor in-range failure. <---possible but i think it is the diaphragm as Brad mentioned.
it is not starting again so its going back to the shop. while it is in i will have them replace all the hoses that come off the turbos and wastegates. after that im hosed.
I have a bypass on/off PID...dunno if that's any help
Did anyone get on the phone with the Hotline?
I don't think so. so far if it doesn't have a code they are playing dumb.
Did you monitor voltage while trying to start?
All of the shiny lights during startup is not an indication of cranking power.
There is a possibility that low power could cause your other issues as well, I've seen all of mine exhibit very strange behavior when the battery was in it's death throes.
Did you look for DTC's with the X4?
Never underestimate the stupidity or laziness of some Ford techs...
i will have to check again but we did not see any codes last time. as to the voltage while cranking i don't have the tools .. but im sure the dealership will :P
Update: Bad start switch thingy. Ford is replacing the entire Button-to-control module for the PTS. scary part... the assembly is in back order. since June 2017 0_0 ?
so were stealing another dealerships parts. also getting a quote to replace the turbo... Massive pain and cost incoming.
:(
Well in for a penny in for a pound. Just ordered 2550$ (labor included) 2 full turbo replacements.
sigh...
@AJP, I think i'm going to ask you for a copy of my last tune (with meth) with TQ management for the 1-2 shift. I wonder if i tore up my wastegate diaphragm with the hard 1-2 shifts and all that wheel hop and shuddering.
:( You are going to retain the old turbos, right? Give a good onceover and stuff to see what might have gone wrong with them? Sorry it's hitting your pockets so hard ...
Do they know exactly what is wrong or are they hanging parts?
I guess that's not terrible with new turbos and ford doing it...but I fear they are just changing parts even though my best guess is that the wastegate canisters are bad
And Topher I don't think vibration is the main culprit but maybe just the age ? But sure we can look into the tune
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 08, 2018, 07:35:45 PM
Do they know exactly what is wrong or are they hanging parts?
It's a educated guess on my part with AJP providing feedback. It is not speed sensors, its not the solenoid, its not the connectors, junctions hoses, misfire, knock sensors, or Tq source codes etc..
Couple that with the behavior I'm pretty convinced. If not ... well I'm going to actually set it on fire because this dealership useless.. and there are no speed shops for 100+ miles that i think can do the job.
... and then it turns out it is the PCM connectors that have corrosion ...
I would say for $2550 can the dealer guarantee any repair with certainty that replacing the turbos will fix your issue!
Agreed with AJP and playing guessing games by throwing parts @ it will add up to a substantial amount! Dunno! Z
ye-gods i know... It is a risk but at this point all i have left is totaling it somehow. Hoping the predictability of the of the boost problem is mechanical as it presents itself.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 09, 2018, 05:00:22 PM
ye-gods i know... It is a risk but at this point all i have left is totaling it somehow. Hoping the predictability of the of the boost problem is mechanical as it presents itself.
Just for funsies, have you checked your baro pid for accuracy?
That is built into the PCM and if you have a failing sensor or PCM I could see that causing all kinds of hard to diag boost shenanigans
probably not since I have never heard of it before now :help2: ... how does it work?
Quote from: TopherSho on January 09, 2018, 10:33:22 PM
probably not since I have never heard of it before now :help2: ... how does it work?
It is your barometric pressure sensor and very important to speed density calcs.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 09, 2018, 10:35:41 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 09, 2018, 10:33:22 PM
probably not since I have never heard of it before now :help2: ... how does it work?
It is your barometric pressure sensor and very important to speed density calcs.
Oh that's the 3bar/MAP. I have three of them. still has the same behavior.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 09, 2018, 10:52:44 PM
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 09, 2018, 10:35:41 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 09, 2018, 10:33:22 PM
probably not since I have never heard of it before now :help2: ... how does it work?
It is your barometric pressure sensor and very important to speed density calcs.
Oh that's the 3bar/MAP. I have three of them. still has the same behavior.
No, I'm talking about the baro sensor that is mounted to the pcm board.
I double checked and there is a a 3 way correlation check between the sensors at startup and it looks like another 2 way @ 1500 rpm
if I'm reading it correctly.http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1001.pdf (http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1001.pdf)
Pgs 137, 142
I'd want to make sure its not malfunctioning outside of those conditions.
Just curious, how much is it over boosting?
I think he is overboosting about 2-4 psi as it nears redline which is a lot considering boost generally drops slightly below commanded at redline
I think there is a mechanical problem and then the ecu is trying to control torque via other means but because it's a mechanical problem it can't and the car starts running bad
If that flapper (wastegate) in the turbo is not opening to slow down the turbine it will overboost and it will be hard for the ecu to control the boost if that push rod is not opening that flapper and the exhaust can't bypass the turbine wheel
His wastegate duty is not rising nor is the boost target going up stock or tuned so that's why I think mechanical...and there really aren't many parts to the turbo boost control and he has changed the solenoid already...canister, push rod and flapper
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 10, 2018, 09:34:38 AM
I think he is overboosting about 2-4 psi as it nears redline which is a lot considering boost generally drops slightly below commanded at redline
I think there is a mechanical problem and then the ecu is trying to control torque via other means but because it's a mechanical problem it can't and the car starts running bad
If that flapper (wastegate) in the turbo is not opening to slow down the turbine it will overboost and it will be hard for the ecu to control the boost if that push rod is not opening that flapper and the exhaust can't bypass the turbine wheel
His wastegate duty is not rising nor is the boost target going up stock or tuned so that's why I think mechanical...and there really aren't many parts to the turbo boost control and he has changed the solenoid already...canister, push rod and flapper
yeah that is my line of thought .. i know its mechanical and that limits wheres there to do. :(
sigh. oh well it should run awesome with all the new bits.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 10, 2018, 01:42:41 PM
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 10, 2018, 09:34:38 AM
I think he is overboosting about 2-4 psi as it nears redline which is a lot considering boost generally drops slightly below commanded at redline
I think there is a mechanical problem and then the ecu is trying to control torque via other means but because it's a mechanical problem it can't and the car starts running bad
If that flapper (wastegate) in the turbo is not opening to slow down the turbine it will overboost and it will be hard for the ecu to control the boost if that push rod is not opening that flapper and the exhaust can't bypass the turbine wheel
His wastegate duty is not rising nor is the boost target going up stock or tuned so that's why I think mechanical...and there really aren't many parts to the turbo boost control and he has changed the solenoid already...canister, push rod and flapper
yeah that is my line of thought .. i know its mechanical and that limits wheres there to do. :(
sigh. oh well it should run awesome with all the new bits.
Well, that explains the lack of over boost codes. apparently those aren't set unless the difference in commanded is 4+ PSI.
good to know thank you sir.. that explains a ton actually...
Quote from: TopherSho on January 10, 2018, 03:49:16 PM
good to know thank you sir.. that explains a ton actually...
I just wonder how much troubleshooting your dealership actually did....sigh.
Cause I know you asked bunches of questions, lol.
I really hope the new snails fix your issue.
Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 10, 2018, 04:02:16 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 10, 2018, 03:49:16 PM
good to know thank you sir.. that explains a ton actually...
I just wonder how much troubleshooting your dealership actually did....sigh.
Cause I know you asked bunches of questions, lol.
I really hope the new snails fix your issue.
I knew right away i was in trouble when I said 'spark table' the *shop manager* look bewildered. he was maybe 30..
Well no dice. Ford can't figure out the ignition issue. They *think* it is related to the remote start.
Question to the Gurus - how can i tell 'what' remote start i have?
i have a FOB with the markings:
goh-pcmini
IC 3671a10247510
That any good for identifying the unit .. the dealership claims it is not 'theirs' .. it looks like this .. http://www.remotesunlimited.com/specify.php?search=1&type=fcc&search_fcc=GOH-PCMINI (http://www.remotesunlimited.com/specify.php?search=1&type=fcc&search_fcc=GOH-PCMINI)
the unit on the top left is what i have. is it generic??
Jeezus Topher ....when did it start having this ignition problem also?...is it possible the meh install messed up something electrically? Like fried something or a wiring issue..maybe you do have a bad pcm? Just crazy how there can be this many problems at once
Quote from: TopherSho on January 16, 2018, 08:54:08 PM
Well no dice. Ford can't figure out the ignition issue. They *think* it is related to the remote start.
Question to the Gurus - how can i tell 'what' remote start i have?
i have a FOB with the markings:
goh-pcmini
IC 3671a10247510
That any good for identifying the unit .. the dealership claims it is not 'theirs' .. it looks like this .. http://www.remotesunlimited.com/specify.php?search=1&type=fcc&search_fcc=GOH-PCMINI (http://www.remotesunlimited.com/specify.php?search=1&type=fcc&search_fcc=GOH-PCMINI)
the unit on the top left is what i have. is it generic??
Type in your Vin number! hope it works! Z https://www.motorcraftservice.com/Keycode/KeycodeLookup (https://www.motorcraftservice.com/Keycode/KeycodeLookup)
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 16, 2018, 09:04:15 PM
Jeezus Topher ....when did it start having this ignition problem also?...is it possible the meh install messed up something electrically? Like fried something or a wiring issue..maybe you do have a bad pcm? Just crazy how there can be this many problems at once
F&&ked if i know. im over it. ' ' close to selling it.
Dealer installed remote start ... uh oh. Seems like finding a shop competent with electrical diagnostics would be the next step, given the ignition issue. Could be as simple as a poor ground. As far as PCM, water/dirt intrusion into the connectors has been an issue sometimes. So pull the (3?) connectors off at the PCM, check/clean/grease/reconnect. See if that makes a difference.
Here's my fob.
FYI the wiring on my "dealer installed" Ford remote start is a complete $h!tSHO.
Where is the PCM on these cars?
Under the cowl panel grille, I believe. Follow the PCM connectors to exact location.
THE PCM MODULE AT CENTER OF FIREWALL UNDER THE HOOD! UNDER COWL COVER!. IIRC. Z
(https://i.imgur.com/zdw0gJjh.png?1)
Its towards the center Drivers side under the seal! Z
(https://i.imgur.com/pM1UesBh.jpg?3)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZD1jzzth.jpg?1)
I asked them to unplug/inspect and re-plug. well see if that even gets done.
:popcorn:
Quote from: SHOdded on January 17, 2018, 01:45:55 PM
:popcorn:
Right !? I mean what a s*** show ... (no pun intended)
At a total loss for words right now, seriously. But I tell ya, at times like these, it is good to have a trusted mechanic/troubleshooter handy. I fondly remember Kevin Mahoney of ProTech Automotive. I would hang around sometimes just to watch him work ...
Quote from: SHOdded on January 17, 2018, 03:34:43 PM
At a total loss for words right now, seriously. But I tell ya, at times like these, it is good to have a trusted mechanic/troubleshooter handy. I fondly remember Kevin Mahoney of ProTech Automotive. I would hang around sometimes just to watch him work ...
I kind of get their position on the ignition issue. it is a wiring mess under the dash. Even if it is installed by the previous ford dealer, chasing a bad ground, bus issue just sounds F##ing awful. So I cant actually blame them directly for the length of the issue and the lack or progress....the previous Ford dealership in Canada who installed it .. oh hell yes.
As to LITERALLY seeing the 4 pounds of overboost resulting in massive spark and power cuts causing the lurching and acceleration backfire style behavior and NOT knowing what to do just because there are no code ... they are completely to blame for a severe lack of technical know-how. It is disheartening to look a a lot FULL of TTv6 trucks and for them to have NO idea what a spark table even is, or what might cause sustained overboosting AFTER replacing multiple components.
Me : have you pulled the PCM to look at the connectors like i recommended yesterday?
Them : umm no
Me: Ok, did you pull and bench the starter motor and solenoid?
Them : no, but we can
8 hours later ..
Them : so hey the starter is bad! good call. And the switch is bad when we put the new starter in.. /faceplam/
Me : So, can we pull the pcm now
them : well yeah maybe you have a good idea there too ..
ugh ...
Quote from: TopherSho on January 18, 2018, 01:13:15 PM
Me : have you pulled the PCM to look at the connectors like i recommended yesterday?
Them : umm no
Me: Ok, did you pull and bench the starter motor and solenoid?
Them : no, but we can
8 hours later ..
Them : so hey the starter is bad! good call. And the switch is bad when we put the new starter in.. /faceplam/
Me : So, can we pull the pcm now
them : well yeah maybe you have a good idea there too ..
ugh ...
It sounds like there clueless on exactly how to pinpoint your issue and should be installing tires instead! :bangin:
I would try a Lincoln dealer if not already mentioned! Z
Progress I hope albeit through some seedy dark alleys ...
Quote from: ZSHO on January 18, 2018, 01:28:10 PM
It sounds like there clueless on exactly how to pinpoint your issue and should be installing tires instead! :bangin:
I would try a Lincoln dealer if not already mentioned! Z
ahem ... ''Ford and Lincoln dealership.''
In some places the Ford and Lincoln dealers are separate establishments, not merged. I know some on this board have found they got better service from purely Lincoln dealers.
Is there not any other Ford or Lincoln dealers anywhere around you? With the history you have with this dealer, where I in your shoes, I would be driving right past them to the next closest dealer available. More than worth the time and gas $. Seriously you are hemoraging $ because they are clueless, honestly can't get much worse driving farther and giving it a shot.
crossing fingers for yah man, you have WAY more patience than I.
Quote from: lamrith on January 18, 2018, 04:23:14 PM
In some places the Ford and Lincoln dealers are separate establishments, not merged. I know some on this board have found they got better service from purely Lincoln dealers.
Is there not any other Ford or Lincoln dealers anywhere around you? With the history you have with this dealer, where I in your shoes, I would be driving right past them to the next closest dealer available. More than worth the time and gas $. Seriously you are hemoraging $ because they are clueless, honestly can't get much worse driving farther and giving it a shot.
crossing fingers for yah man, you have WAY more patience than I.
next nearest ford dealer is in Salem .. car would not start so i had no choice or tow it 60 minutes and make multiple trips back and forth :(
I totally get it Topher, been in your shoes. IF you have more issues once it is on the road again, my honest recommendation would be to pay the flatbed/tow fee and take it elsewhere in the future. It is better for your stress level and wallet.
I had to do that on the car I had before this SHO. It was a Cadillac STSV, and they had a fuel pump recall. I have a Caddy dealer 2 miles from my work. I had heard enough horror stories from various local group members about that local dealer I did not take the car there, I drove 1hr north and took it to a well recommended dealer for the work and was able to sleep well at night knowing it was in good hands and they would get it handled. Cost me fuel, cost me time off work to go up 2x during the work week, not to mention drive time itself, all $ and effort WELL spent imho.
Ok line up your "Told ya so's." 2800$ (AFTER warranty) in work, still overboosting and not safe to drive hard.
--replaced 2 of these : EB-3-BAR-MAP-AA5Z-9F479-B
--replaced these supposedly http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2956263&cc=144505 (http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2956263&cc=144505) when we did the next part below
--replaced this "OEM BL3Z-9K378-A Turbocharger Bypass Solenoid
--replaced all the connected hoses to the above, i inspected and they looked new at least on top.
--replaced both turbos
--still overboosts hard, and then chokes the timing and all but backfires.
good news.
--well the front turbo was cooked. the turbine had cracks and was a very dark color to the turbine metal. so it was well on its way to grenade land.
--the control arm was so badly rusted, they could not get it loose had to replace the whole unit. how is that good news? .. well it sounds like a fail waiting to happen..
--1500$ of it was covered by warranty
I am out of ideas. all i can determine in my VASTLY undertrained skills is this ::
-The waste gate is not opening on one of the snails or both.
-the waste gate is pressure operated, so the connecting hose is bad? i do not think so its brand new.
-that leads back to the Turbocharger Bypass Solenoid switch, which we have replaced.. any one have a diagram of what goes in and what goes out ? there is a electrical lead, how do i verify IT is working or has the correct voltage? all i can do is trace back from there. :( which being me is tough as i am pretty electrical illiterate.
laptop is dead so i cannot scan for pids. i have no idea id there are pids for the wastegates other than the duty cycle which if i recall us "assumed" since there are no electrical leads to the wastegates.
ideas... im about to give up, put it to stock and sell it in 9 months..
crazy bummed
FYI if your new and don't want to read the whole thread : went racing, had the best runs ever, next morning it was ''backfiring'' at 5000+ rpm and practically stalling the car. logged it .. turned out the back firing and massive surging was the spark going from 26-28' to 0 instantly and over and over above 5000 rpm. APJ saw i was overboosting by 4 pounds. just under the ETC code limit.
edit : 928pm
idea..
Should i be able to safely test the two vacuum leading from the plastic ends (pic link below) going to the wastegates by gently sucking on them? that negative pressure should stay and remain static yes? if so then my issue is either the hot plug, or the vacuum source on the left (the metal side)..is the vacuum source static? does it vary?
http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=231638127798&category=33742&pm=1&ds=0&t=1509129879000&ver=0 (http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=231638127798&category=33742&pm=1&ds=0&t=1509129879000&ver=0)
I have so many Diagrams and need to take a look for ya!
There is also a 15 amp fuse inside the (BCB)
I would also perform a PCM Reset! Z
(https://i.imgur.com/h02J6Tnh.png?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/nV9vbWdh.png?1)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZAsoqmqhdM#)
Did the rear turbo get replaced?
Quote from: ZSHO on January 27, 2018, 08:20:23 AM
I have so many Diagrams and need to take a look for ya!
There is also a 15 amp fuse inside the (BCB)
I would also perform a PCM Reset! Z
Aside from yanking the battery terminal and turning on the headlights... any special means of resetting the pcm ?
and ... BCB? means :P ??? :-\
Quote from: TopherSho on January 27, 2018, 11:11:26 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 27, 2018, 08:20:23 AM
I have so many Diagrams and need to take a look for ya!
There is also a 15 amp fuse inside the (BCB)
I would also perform a PCM Reset! Z
Aside from yanking the battery terminal and turning on the headlights... any special means of resetting the pcm ?
and ... BCB? means :P ??? :-\
Its usually recommended after having repairs performed as noted in the video above!
I would also check the turbo wastegate fuse which is a 15 amp located by the Battery fuse compartment!
I would try swapping a 15 amp fuse!
The fuses sometimes get corrossion buildup with age,due to moisture and the elements effecting conductivity! Z
Quote from: ZSHO on January 27, 2018, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 27, 2018, 11:11:26 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 27, 2018, 08:20:23 AM
I have so many Diagrams and need to take a look for ya!
There is also a 15 amp fuse inside the (BCB)
I would also perform a PCM Reset! Z
Aside from yanking the battery terminal and turning on the headlights... any special means of resetting the pcm ?
and ... BCB? means :P ??? :-\
Its usually recommended after having repairs performed as noted in the video above!
I would also check the turbo wastegate fuse which is a 15 amp located by the Battery fuse compartment!
The fuses sometimes get corroded with age,due to moisture and the elements effecting conductivity! Z
just did :
run 20 minutes idle
shut off
pull neg terminal
flip on head lights and wedged the bake pedal
wait 10 minutes
plug neg back in
started... very slowly so i assume it reset? it had a hell of a time.. about 10 seconds cranking before it kicked over
now its running for 15 before i power it down
i ill have to look at the fuse. the fuse must be for the 12v solenoid ? and it looks like it is triggered by the hot pipe so my original assumption was off, it not vacuum operated its positive operated. everything else seems mechanical ?
Correct ! The wastegate is mechanical. IIRC! Z
I hope the Battery is efficient.
battery is 9 months old. and 'seems' very charged. i have yet to check fuse box and do a test drive. i am single parenting today with my 5yrold :)
is the PCM seriously buried behind the firewall insulation AND the rainguard !!??? ugghhhhhh ... can ford not make anything easy ?
It could be a loose or corroded connector or pushed out pins on the PCM! Dunno!
If removing the PCM please take the necessary precautions as the pins are very fragile! Z
rtf- is the code and definition
pdf- is the pinpiont testin .
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdidFg4ZmN6SzF3cVVueGo2TFNSNUtfamJPcllN/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14Bw8eQ1WwidPxJu9sJtqp_v75886pM-dLq0I-R3qmDQ
Quote from: ZSHO on January 27, 2018, 01:57:22 PM
It could be a loose or corroded connector or pushed out pins on the PCM! Dunno!
If removing the PCM please take the necessary precautions as the pins are very fragile! Z
rtf- is the code and definition
pdf- is the pinpiont testin .
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8JUL90DXgdidFg4ZmN6SzF3cVVueGo2TFNSNUtfamJPcllN/view?usp=drivesdk
thank ye good sir, i will skip the pcm for now. today is not a good day to go after it, and i am not at all experienced in testing pins.
but i do want to look at the pins, and the goo
all the 15 amp fuses looked un-burnt. i skipped getting a schematic and scraped them all clean and shiny..
I wouldn't normally guess the ecu connections or ecu but you do live in the Pacific Northwest so maybe the rainy and humid air got some things corroded? I think a remember a member here that had a horribly corroded set of ecu connectors
Quote from: AJP turbo on January 27, 2018, 03:10:07 PM
I wouldn't normally guess the ecu connections or ecu but you do live in the Pacific Northwest so maybe the rainy and humid air got some things corroded? I think a remember a member here that had a horribly corroded set of ecu connectors
at this point im hosed. if the reset and fuse scraping do not work im down to tracing wires which i have no experience with.. and i am done spending money :(
i took apart the boost solenoid and the line that leads to the turbos holds pressue, the lines to the hot pipe and intake are clear. so it i not a issue with the pressure leaking.
that leaves the wire harness. im not going there. nope.. i will make it worse and be unable to sell the car.
so its pretty much down to this test drive. i have the 14 psi tune in place. if it still freaks out i will go back to stock and sell it off at the year when i am above water on it.
seriously bummed.
Quote from: TopherSho on January 27, 2018, 01:43:05 PM
battery is 9 months old. and 'seems' very charged. i have yet to check fuse box and do a test drive. i am single parenting today with my 5yrold :)
is the PCM seriously buried behind the firewall insulation AND the rainguard !!??? ugghhhhhh ... can ford not make anything easy ?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180127/fde7849b6ddbfe6052c4f54debc0d633.jpg)
Here's a pic I took when I was running my stereo power wire through the firewall.
The windshield original ? or recently replaced? Z
test drive fail.
replaced..... Before i started having issues. but i am to tired of this to take it all apart to get to the PCM..
maybe later..
You'll need one of these the remove the wiper arms. There about $10 from any auto part store.
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4676-Windshield-Wiper-Puller/dp/B000L7JQE8(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180127/c8dde7042e073074146973e16eb5593b.jpg)
.. if i have to use a puller to press the washer arms off .. how do i get them back on ?
Quote from: ZSHO on January 27, 2018, 11:14:08 PM
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com) . Z
sorry boss man, none of the topics seemed close to how to remove the wiper arms ?
Quote from: TopherSho on January 27, 2018, 11:25:00 PM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 27, 2018, 11:14:08 PM
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com) . Z
sorry boss man, none of the topics seemed close to how to remove the wiper arms ?
Sorry man! Long day! Z
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2177.msg105712.html#msg105712 (https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2177.msg105712.html#msg105712)
I know it's a long shot but any signs of water on the passenger side footwell! Just trying to help ya out!
It reminds me of the time I was trying to troubleshoot these hidden electrical gremlins on my other car to later find out there was water inside the PCM!
I cleaned the contacts with some electronic cleaner and then let it soak overnight while applying some Wd-40!
I truly understand you're frustration and been there done that,but try to not give up hope my friend!
Btw try to monitor for any new Codes on a daily basis! Z
Quote from: TopherSho on January 27, 2018, 11:02:03 PM
.. if i have to use a puller to press the washer arms off .. how do i get them back on ?
There is a nut that holds them in place. You remove the nut use the puller to remove the wiper arm.
To reinstall just put the wiper arm back on its previous location, making sure it's lined up correctly and tighten down the nut.
The mount is cone shaped and splined.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180128/f821988fc1882573b69779dc655e38f7.jpg)
Quote from: ZSHO on January 28, 2018, 08:00:21 AM
I know it's a long shot but any signs of water on the passenger side footwell! Just trying to help ya out!
It reminds me of the time I was trying to troubleshoot these hidden electrical gremlins on my other car to later find out there was water inside the PCM!
I cleaned the contacts with some electronic cleaner and then let it soak overnight while applying some Wd-40!
I truly understand you're frustration and been there done that,but try to not give up hope my friend!
Btw try to monitor for any new Codes on a daily basis! Z
I ma super close in giving up. i'm going to start a new thread in a second. I did a short datalog of the behavior last night and I'm more confused. i want to see if anyone else has any ideas ..
Quote from: glock-coma on January 28, 2018, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on January 27, 2018, 11:02:03 PM
.. if i have to use a puller to press the washer arms off .. how do i get them back on ?
There is a nut that holds them in place. You remove the nut use the puller to remove the wiper arm.
To reinstall just put the wiper arm back on its previous location, making sure it's lined up correctly and tighten down the nut.
The mount is cone shaped and splined.
Ok .. thank you. I am going to look at doing this today. I will stop by Autozone\Knects..