Last night was perfect! This morning not so much. I ran 11+ runs with no issue using 100% meth based on a reply from tech@snowperfromance.com saying it was fine to run pure meth.
This morning the green led is turning Amber ..
anyone know what that Amber light means? It is a solid green/Amber color. I am not referring to the Amber tank level light.
I do have a Email back in with snow ..
Hmmm is it the pressure light? Is the pump not building pressure?
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 16, 2017, 08:39:41 PM
Hmmm is it the pressure light? Is the pump not building pressure?
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No clue. Trying to lookup the led states but thier site is hard to navigate on my phone..
If I have to guess,. The tech I talked to is wrong and the pump is NOT 100% meth safe and the pump ate the diaphragm sitting overnight with 100% meth in it.
Quote from: TopherSho on September 16, 2017, 09:07:30 PM
If I have to guess,. The tech I talked to is wrong and the pump is NOT 100% meth safe and the pump ate the diaphragm sitting overnight with 100% meth in it.
That's why I went with Alky Control.... sorry bud!
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 16, 2017, 10:46:45 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on September 16, 2017, 09:07:30 PM
If I have to guess,. The tech I talked to is wrong and the pump is NOT 100% meth safe and the pump ate the diaphragm sitting overnight with 100% meth in it.
That's why I went with Alky Control.... sorry bud!
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If the verdict is in fact that the pump is NOT 100% meth safe i am going to be super pissed since i have an email stating it is. I do not know if I can swap in a Alky pump and replace the Snow one but that's my 1st possibility if that is the case.
well see though, as of now i don't even know what the green light going amber even means :P .. could be a voltage issue (hoping!)
Sigh. There's no doubt now that the snow pump has failed. It turns on bright yellow then orange and the car freaks out.
Turned it off. Now to see what they will do for the warranty. I am super annoyed since I have an email stating it's fine. My gut says the sales guy did not understand my questions.
But even if they honor the warranty I'm hosed. I do not want to run 50% ..
And now if I want back in the 70% meth game I need a 100% meth pump and try to adapt it to the kit I have.
Now to wait for a reply from snow. Left a voicemail was well
I hope they do honor the warranty. Then you can put it up for sale, and get an Alky pump instead?
Anyhoo, sorry for your "loss".
The plastic push lines will start to leak in time due to 100% meth.
I went to a good 100% meth pump and went braided steel... no issues.
Snow hasn't been very good at honoring their warranties.
Cringe.
Happy Alky-Controls customer here.
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Quote from: bpd1151 on September 17, 2017, 01:38:40 AM
Snow hasn't been very good at honoring their warranties.
Cringe.
Happy Alky-Controls customer here.
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That's awesome ... Clearly I bought the wrong kit.
If the lines won't hold either the whole thing is useless.
I unfortunately had a feeling based on your last runs.
Did you purchase your kit through Snow Directly?
I hoping for a Speedy resolution on the matter @ hand. Z
So some quick research is showing if you want to replace the valves and diaphragm in that snow pump, you can run pure meth... the new valve/diaphragm is this one I believe?
http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_94-390-06.html
Chances are the valve/diaphragm got dissolved enough that its leaking and not able to build pressure so that part will need to be replaced anyway...
Then switch out the lines for braided without plastic fittings and you could be good to go... might be worth looking a Devils Own for fittings and lines...
I would get the pump model and call sureflo just to verify... it could be relatively inexpensive to convert your setup over to support 100 meth..
Good luck with getting them to work warranty with you! If you bought it from them you should be OK. If you purchase it for the less than the MSRP from another reseller they will not honor any warranty.
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 17, 2017, 08:47:58 AM
So some quick research is showing if you want to replace the valves and diaphragm in that snow pump, you can run pure meth... the new valve/diaphragm is this one I believe?
http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_94-390-06.html (http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_94-390-06.html)
Chances are the valve/diaphragm got dissolved enough that its leaking and not able to build pressure so that part will need to be replaced anyway...
Then switch out the lines for braided without plastic fittings and you could be good to go... might be worth looking a Devils Own for fittings and lines...
I would get the pump model and call sureflo just to verify... it could be relatively inexpensive to convert your setup over to support 100 meth..
Good luck with getting them to work warranty with you! If you bought it from them you should be OK. If you purchase it for the less than the MSRP from another reseller they will not honor any warranty.
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SBS you are amazing. thank you for the information. i will follow up on the thread when i hear back from snow. if i can get a new pump i will take it and convert it if possible.
Did you get datalogs when it failed? I would say it's a testament to AJPTurbo's tune that your meth failed and your motor didn't pop!
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 17, 2017, 02:04:01 PM
Did you get datalogs when it failed? I would say it's a testament to AJPTurbo's tune that your meth failed and your motor didn't pop!
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*sort of*
If you check my AJP meth experience thread I mention weird meth behavior after it sat for 17 days with 70% meth in it.. well I now think that's was the 1st sign. At 70% meth it was degrading the diaphragm.. but it still operated once you made a hard run. I data logged it doing its delay and posted it and sent one to brad.
Then I raced it since it felt fine after getting past that flutter. At that time I was thinking air in the lines from not having a check valve. it ran all night like a champ! got a new best time and all that.
Next morning after sitting for 8 hours with 100% meth it was *done*.. green light would turn amber, and after 3 more short tests it went all yellow and amber and the car bucked hard.
I would say in my form the AJP tune is saving the car from damage for sure! now i will roll the tune back to my last non-meth favorite, try to get a warranty replacement and send the car to the shop. hopefully when i get the car back this coming friday i will have a new pump that is 100% meth safe and just swap it in and flip back to meth tune#3.
fingers crossed.
Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 17, 2017, 08:47:58 AM
So some quick research is showing if you want to replace the valves and diaphragm in that snow pump, you can run pure meth... the new valve/diaphragm is this one I believe?
http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_94-390-06.html (http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_94-390-06.html)
Chances are the valve/diaphragm got dissolved enough that its leaking and not able to build pressure so that part will need to be replaced anyway...
Then switch out the lines for braided without plastic fittings and you could be good to go... might be worth looking a Devils Own for fittings and lines...
I would get the pump model and call sureflo just to verify... it could be relatively inexpensive to convert your setup over to support 100 meth..
Good luck with getting them to work warranty with you! If you bought it from them you should be OK. If you purchase it for the less than the MSRP from another reseller they will not honor any warranty.
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So am here, ( http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_8008-943-839_parts.html (http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_8008-943-839_parts.html) ) but cannot see any of the 'details'? i cant verify if it support pure meth, the browser (ff,chrome,IE) flashes and closes the page :P ..
have to call them to make sure.
Quote from: TopherSho on September 17, 2017, 03:07:23 PM
Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 17, 2017, 08:47:58 AM
So some quick research is showing if you want to replace the valves and diaphragm in that snow pump, you can run pure meth... the new valve/diaphragm is this one I believe?
http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_94-390-06.html (http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_94-390-06.html)
Chances are the valve/diaphragm got dissolved enough that its leaking and not able to build pressure so that part will need to be replaced anyway...
Then switch out the lines for braided without plastic fittings and you could be good to go... might be worth looking a Devils Own for fittings and lines...
I would get the pump model and call sureflo just to verify... it could be relatively inexpensive to convert your setup over to support 100 meth..
Good luck with getting them to work warranty with you! If you bought it from them you should be OK. If you purchase it for the less than the MSRP from another reseller they will not honor any warranty.
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So am here, ( http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_8008-943-839_parts.html (http://www.pumpvendor.com/Shurflo_8008-943-839_parts.html) ) but cannot see any of the 'details'? i cant verify if it support pure meth, the browser (ff,chrome,IE) flashes and closes the page :P ..
have to call them to make sure.
Not sure, but this thread has a lot of good information from guys with SP pumps that have crapped out on 100% meth...
http://www.3si.org/forum/#/topics/379968?page=4
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Perplexed to still see suggestions at alternate pumps/vendors......
I'll reiterate, a proven, consistent performer..... Alky-Controls.
Stop beating yourself up and just do it. Headaches, worries, concerns etc. all done with.
Did I mention Alky-Controls?
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i hear voices in my head moaning "Allllkkkkyyyyy" "Alllllllllllllllllllllkyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy" o yea!
Quote from: bpd1151 on September 17, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
Perplexed to still see suggestions at alternate pumps/vendors......
I'll reiterate, a proven, consistent performer..... Alky-Controls.
Stop beating yourself up and just do it. Headaches, worries, concerns etc. all done with.
Did I mention Alky-Controls?
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
I agree 100% with your assessment. There were a platitude of reason I personally chose Alky Control. TopherSho is having an issue obviously and being able to remedy his issues with under $150 in parts is an option vs dropping $900 on a new kit.
If the OP doesn't have heart burn buying another meth kit then Alky Control is a great option, and there has only been one pump failure as far I know on our platform with BPD1151 drawing that lucky straw.
Just trying to provide alternatives...
If it was my car, knowing I have a meth dependent tune, and want to maximize my performance with 100% meth, I wouldn't think twice about dropping the money on Alky Control. Cheaper than a new motor!
The OP IMHO is damn lucky the SP pump didn't crap out in the middle of a 1/4 mile run this time around or this thread would have a different more expensive resolution.
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Thanks for all the feedback guys!
So here is my two thoughts..
As SBS noted I can call sureflow and see about replacing the internals with 100% meth rated components. If that's possible I will go that route since I'm all set for the rest of the hardware minus the braided lines.
What I need to figure out is how the error light works on the snow kit, if the pump is 'dumb' and is on off. I might just buy and drop in a similar psi rated alky pump..
As to blowing up the motor.. would 6 points if timing really do that? I'm not sure.. I can run 20 pts spark on just 92 gas,. If the pump fully stopped mid run I'd be 6 points over spark..
Quote from: TopherSho on September 17, 2017, 06:11:36 PM
Thanks for all the feedback guys!
So here is my two thoughts..
As SBS noted I can call sureflow and see about replacing the internals with 100% meth rated components. If that's possible I will go that route since I'm all set for the rest of the hardware minus the braided lines.
What I need to figure out is how the error light works on the snow kit, if the pump is 'dumb' and is on off. I might just buy and drop in a similar psi rated alky pump..
As to blowing up the motor.. would 6 points if timing really do that? I'm not sure.. I can run 20 pts spark on just 92 gas,. If the pump fully stopped mid run I'd be 6 points over spark..
There have been a motors that have blown up when guys run of out meth. Its not so much the total spark I would be worried about... it's how fast your knock sensors can relay back to the ECU so it can start pulling timing... it's really a race against the clock.. are you running more boost with less throttle control? Your meth is also supplementing your fuel system as well... lots of factors. If it's a conservative meth tune you might be ok... again... just depends on variables.
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Quote from: TopherSho on September 17, 2017, 06:11:36 PM
Thanks for all the feedback guys!
So here is my two thoughts..
As SBS noted I can call sureflow and see about replacing the internals with 100% meth rated components. If that's possible I will go that route since I'm all set for the rest of the hardware minus the braided lines.
What I need to figure out is how the error light works on the snow kit, if the pump is 'dumb' and is on off. I might just buy and drop in a similar psi rated alky pump..
As to blowing up the motor.. would 6 points if timing really do that? I'm not sure.. I can run 20 pts spark on just 92 gas,. If the pump fully stopped mid run I'd be 6 points over spark..
There have been a motors that have blown up when guys run of out meth. Its not so much the total spark I would be worried about... it's how fast your knock sensors can relay back to the ECU so it can start pulling timing... it's really a race against the clock.. are you running more boost with less throttle control? Your meth is also supplementing your fuel system as well... lots of factors. If it's a conservative meth tune you might be ok... again... just depends on variables.
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 17, 2017, 07:48:30 PM
are you running more boost with less throttle control? Your meth is also supplementing your fuel system as well... lots of factors. If it's a conservative meth tune you might be ok... again... just depends on variables.
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I would say i'm running a moderately aggressive Meth build. Brad was explaining the controls in place and how fast it can adjust, i would defer to him to explain it better than I.
well now i'm flumoxxed. Snow is claiming the LED does not change color and has only one element. but that doesn't solve the pump pressure issue so now I am off to make a recorded call to the support staff and press the issue of the pump.
wish me luck..
however this does solve one mystery, if the pump has no logic, and the green led is just a green led then i should be able to drop in a replacement pump running the same pressure and re-use the exiting kit.
###################################################################################
From: Snow Performance Tech [mailto:tech@snowperformance.net]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:41 AM
To: Chris Beeck <cbeeck@symantec.com>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Is the stage 1 100% meth compatible? IE run 100% meth no water ? thanks in advance!
Hi Chris,
it does look like it has some different colors - I dont know if that is relating to heat in the circuit or something else , but i can assure you the LED is simply meant to come on when the pump is active , there are not alarm colors in that light.
###################################################################################
###################################################################################
From: Snow Performance Tech [mailto:tech@snowperformance.net]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:27 AM
To: Chris Beeck <cbeeck@symantec.com>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Is the stage 1 100% meth compatible? IE run 100% meth no water ? thanks in advance!
Hi Chris,
The pump is able to run pure methanol - all parts are designed for this.
The green LED is not designed to turn color - if it is showing up as yellow this may be the green coloring fading or burning - it may be a bad LED running hot and overheating the coloring or the coloring did not cure properly and is fading. The light changing color is not indication of pump failure so we dont need to worry about that.
I would be happy to get a new LED light to you - we have never had one turn color before.
###################################################################################
I have a email into Alky, i am asking about the specs of their pump. amperage, psig. if it lines up with the snow pump I may opt to buy their pump and replace the snow one with it, then call sureflow and repair the current pump...
Snow called me, either they are super awesome at bs'ing, or they really do support 100% meth. I attached the audio recording.
They think the LED is burning out, and is unrelated. the LED only has the one element and is not a error light.
The contact very firmly stated 100% meth is fine for the pump
They do recommend replacing the lines at about a year if you run more than 50% meth
They asked to 12v test the pump and report back.
my thoughts::
I wonder ... does meth getting into the boost reference line have bad effects?
Is there is issue with the pressure switch itself?
did having back pressure from no check valve cause the diaphragm to become malformed?
It sounds like there willing to help if i can prove the pump is not working as designed. i will get 20 feet of line and have the pump push a bunch of water through it, then let sit overnight and retest. if that works i will then push 8/9 pounds of pressure BACK UP the output line and retest again.
Audio file is 3gp as recorded by my app :P sorry no wave or mp3 option.
Quote from: bpd1151 on September 17, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
Perplexed to still see suggestions at alternate pumps/vendors......
I'll reiterate, a proven, consistent performer..... Alky-Controls.
Stop beating yourself up and just do it. Headaches, worries, concerns etc. all done with.
Did I mention Alky-Controls?
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
didnt your alky pump fail? I thought you discovered that all pumps have a life span, and are going to fail at some point.
Quote from: J-Will on September 18, 2017, 03:40:13 PM
Quote from: bpd1151 on September 17, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
Perplexed to still see suggestions at alternate pumps/vendors......
I'll reiterate, a proven, consistent performer..... Alky-Controls.
Stop beating yourself up and just do it. Headaches, worries, concerns etc. all done with.
Did I mention Alky-Controls?
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
didnt your alky pump fail? I thought you discovered that all pumps have a life span, and are going to fail at some point.
Yes. It did.
They average 2.5-3yrs (no matter mfg'er) according to Julio, owner of Alky-Controls.
And given the amount of meth I pump through mine, certainly a helluva longer duration than what is being reported as experiences here from Snow.
Plus, from what's been reported previously by others, Snow has terrible product support, and their warranty coverage leaves something to be desired.
Which, all combined, leads me right back to my recommendation of Alky-Controls.
Stellar all around. In every facet.
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Quote from: TopherSho on September 18, 2017, 01:40:55 PM
Snow called me, either they are super awesome at bs'ing, or they really do support 100% meth. I attached the audio recording.
They think the LED is burning out, and is unrelated. the LED only has the one element and is not a error light.
The contact very firmly stated 100% meth is fine for the pump
They do recommend replacing the lines at about a year if you run more than 50% meth
They asked to 12v test the pump and report back.
my thoughts::
I wonder ... does meth getting into the boost reference line have bad effects?
Is there is issue with the pressure switch itself?
did having back pressure from no check valve cause the diaphragm to become malformed?
It sounds like there willing to help if i can prove the pump is not working as designed. i will get 20 feet of line and have the pump push a bunch of water through it, then let sit overnight and retest. if that works i will then push 8/9 pounds of pressure BACK UP the output line and retest again.
Audio file is 3gp as recorded by my app :P sorry no wave or mp3 option.
You can always load your non-meth tune and datalog it...compare your fuel trims to see if the pump is still working...
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FWIW.....
Last I spoke with Julio, a new pump alone was running like $160, & a rebuilt one was running $80.
My 1st pump lasted about 2.5yrs, and I'm on a rebuild pump now.
The rebuilt one's rock'n on year 3 now, as I type this.
Just extra info.
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Still $160...
https://www.alkycontrol.com/product-page/alkycontrol-methanol-injection-modified-pump
Tester kit to verify pump pressure, test for leaks etc...
https://www.alkycontrol.com/product-page/buick-gn-tester-kit
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 18, 2017, 04:05:48 PM
You can always load your non-meth tune and datalog it...compare your fuel trims to see if the pump is still working...
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It did pump.. and still does.. sorta. it seems to lag, pump then lag again. makes the car buck bad, after it did that number i turned it off.
cars in the shop on a unrelated issue so i will have to wait to test it specifically like that, but i do have a protocol to run.
-----
let car sit overnight.
drive car with it turned off to greatly over simulate the back pressure thoery..
take nozzle out of the collar.
turn car on accessory.
use a larger eye dropper to trigger the boost reference line (after verifying the boost line itself is fine)
observer and video the spray.
----
but for now all i have is the pump, so i am going to buy some tubing and just jump the pump with the 20 feet of line attached and see if it is struggling all of a sudden. and maybe try pushing some fluid/air back up the output line and re-test as well.
i may also take 12v to the LED for G&G's
what i also need to do is figure out how to measure the voltage @ the pump to ensure it is getting a full 13 volts.. with the pump in the trunk i may have to set up my phone to video it and attach a voltmeter somehow.
@ TropherSho i'm a bit confused :-\ !! thought you had your Kit installed by a shop!!!.
FWIW would knock on there Door or try contacting the installers! Z
Quote from: ZSHO on September 18, 2017, 07:54:13 PM
@ TropherSho i'm a bit confused :-\ !! thought you had your Kit installed by a shop!!!.
FWIW would knock on there Door or try contacting the installers! Z
I am in contact,. But there a hour away.. and I prefer solving my own issues.
If I come up without an answer I will take it in but it's a last resort since the tests are pretty straightforward.
Polskimeth still squirtin strong lol
Quote from: polskifacet on September 19, 2017, 12:25:14 PM
Polskimeth still squirtin strong lol
EW! Pols ... not all over my thread man :fart: !! /bad Pols! BAD!/
:P Snow now includes a check valve in their builds... dang it. Mine did not come with one.
Whats In The Box:
300 PSI UHO (Ultra High Output) Pump
3 Quart Reservoir
All Tubing Necessary for Installation
20' ¼ Inch High Temp Nylon Tubing
18" High Pressure Boost Line
Adjustable Boost Switch (1-15 PSI)
Pig Tail Harness
Level Sensor Upgrade
>>High Flow Check Valve
2 Hyper-Sonic™ Nozzles
Required Hardware Needed For Installation
Snow Performance Running S Decal
Comprehensive Instructions to Install on Any Forced Induction Vehicle
Snow Performance 1-Year Warranty
Probably would fail anyway at the first sign of 100% meth
Snow says they support 100% meth...
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Of course they do. Good ole Snow.
The pump ran ok as a bench test.. used the rental to run jumper cables and applied leads to the pump. So I put it together back in the car and applied a revised tune based on Brad's input that some of the enrichment readings we're not right.
Did some test driving and felt some more wierdness initially and after VERY hard driving it seems a little better.
I will try a full data log tommorow.. I still feel this is a hardware issue that clears after running it hard.
Update:
Made s 'short run' with logging this morning after sitting for 8 hours. (attached)
it seems to have ?settled? (knock on wood)
Changes made:
(1) applied new tune
(2) re-fitted all line fittings ..btw i now HATE push fittings.
(3) took the boost switch and routed the hose over everything instead of under everything, theory being to keep fluid out the Boost ref-line.
(4) unplugged and re-plugged the boost switch connectors.
car will sit for 5 hours.. then i will try to re-log it. before it would sputter (not REALLY sputter) and not fully advance with that long of a off time. if it doesn't have the issue i have a plan.
-replace push connectors with things the screw in (probably go devils own)
-apply super tiny conductive gel to the pressure switch, then wrap it against moisture
-probably do the same to the relay
-replace the green led .. it has fully burned out now.. and voltage test it. hmm i wonder if the led is a 5v led on a 12v circuit..
datalog #3.
in the last 10 minutes of this log i was in manual mode in gear 2, I would let it coast down to idle speed then punch it up to redline. in the last 5-6 runs in second i caught the car doing its weird power/spark/throttle bit again. one of the 2nd gear pull was nigh and day, no power at all then all the power snapped me back into the seat.
skip the 1st 90% of the log and just look at the back end if your following along.
i do not think this is a pump issue now... but i still am not sure WHAT the issue is yet.
Note .. it 'seems' this only occurs in manual mode
Sounds like when with Advance Trak kicks in... it bogs for a second before taking off...
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 22, 2017, 07:23:02 AM
Sounds like when with Advance Trak kicks in... it bogs for a second before taking off...
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I have a number of logs in with brad, i do see TQ source 18 off and on, do you know what that is about ? I am unfamiliar with '18' ..
but i do drive with traction off.. but i cannot kill ADVTRAC since i am not PP
Source Torque 18 is Engine Indicated Torque Limit... send Brad an email... but it's something he has purposely added into his tunes.
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 22, 2017, 09:35:59 AM
Source Torque 18 is Engine Indicated Torque Limit... send Brad an email... but it's something he has purposely added into his tunes.
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Heh timing is perfect he *JUST* advised he is building a new tune and thinks the weirdness is TQ-source related.
He utilized TQ18 to resolve my TQ15 issues with throttle closure and dumping the boost. Your car never suffered for TQ15 did it topher?
Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 22, 2017, 09:35:59 AM
Source Torque 18 is Engine Indicated Torque Limit... send Brad an email... but it's something he has purposely added into his tunes.
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Originally I never had a torque Source 15.. the first couple meth Tunes I think he had already programmed torque Source 18 so I was kind of surprised on revision 3 we started hitting that torque limiter and it was cutting power dramatically..
We're on rev5 now I need to drive it for a few days and let the transmission settle with its TCU learning and see if I will hit that torque limiter again with the new adjustments that AJP just made
Fingers crossed .. who knew I'd have so much torque that the transmission would error out and freak out ??
This engine platform is seriously good..
Hmmmm good luck!
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 23, 2017, 11:40:24 AM
Hmmmm good luck!
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So far so good.. still evaluation
Update: As SBS wisely noted. This appears a mix of two issues now ..
(1) I switched to pure meth. this apparently with the update tune took the power levels beyond what the non-PP likes. So i am seeing tons of TQ limiters now. stomp on it, and it down shifts, but it freaks out cuts assloads of power, dumps meth, bogs then overpowers. super spazzy.
(2) advancetrac is sticking it to me hard. if the wheels are turned at all, I cannot apply power. In fact it seems when coming out from decent turn it has less power than the non-meth tunes i was running until the wheels straighten out .. then it hits like tyson on a roid rage.
I am unsure what to do now. Brad can/might tune around some of it. But bottom line is i cannot fully utilize the meth and the power it is generating unless i am in a straight line.
I may have to cap the power to get back the control and ability to power out of turns ..
Advance Trac is part of it, I rarely and I mean never go full throttle in a turn. I will go sideways into a ditch if I do that. Guaranteed. Even with the livernois tune it's something I don't do. Another reason is I don't want to apply that amount of pressure to the front axles while they are turned, I don't trust something won't snap...
It's not the 100% Meth that is giving you extra power, it's the tune. Meth in and of itself doesn't not generate extra power but allows you to mitigate knock event. Allowing you to tune for more power.
A straight line is the only time I go full throttle.
Work with Brad, I don't think it tuning around issues, you are just asking the car to do something that it isn't tuned for...
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 25, 2017, 12:01:49 PM
Advance Trac is part of it, I rarely and I mean never go full throttle in a turn. I will go sideways into a ditch if I do that. Guaranteed. Even with the livernois tune it's something I don't do. Another reason is I don't want to apply that amount of pressure to the front axles while they are turned, I don't trust something won't snap...
It's not the 100% Meth that is giving you extra power, it's the tune. Meth in and of itself doesn't not generate extra power but allows you to mitigate knock event. Allowing you to tune for more power.
A straight line is the only time I go full throttle.
Work with Brad, I don't think it tuning around issues, you are just asking the car to do something that it isn't tuned for...
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I am hopeful. We'll work it until we hit the platform limits and make a audible then. It has less power in turn-outs than it did with the meth, i really hope we can get that back. probably the MOST times I use the power is when i am merging out into traffic and give the throttle a hard kick .. not 100% but definitely deep in the meth.
Finally back in town and playing catchup...
Toph! Sounds like you are definitely up in power from last time we spoke, that is great to hear after all the trials you went thru this summer.
As for your merging into traffic and giving throttle a kick. I know when I am going to engage in "playtime" I just go to Sport mode, then paddle shift down 1-2 gears which sets the car in rpm and power range and also saves the drivetrain from taking that hit on downshift. I wonder if that might help keep you from hitting some of those torque limiters? Just spit-balling ideas.. I am sure Brad will get you dialed as best as is possible and it's better to have a tune that works "right". But with big power hitting like it does sometimes might have to put some human intervention in place to help it behave the way you want.
I know I find it a blast to use the paddles when it is time to play in turns or situations where there is much speed changes, car just jumps at flick of throttle that way, no shift lag like you see when braking into a corner and then getting back on throttle.
Keep us updated! Any more track days at PIR for you this year?
+1 on straight line or trans goes nuts. I noticed this when logging 0-100 pulls. Just pull out the abs fuse and call it a day lol, In reality I wish there was a way to turn off this stability granny bull in a non-pp. Maybe AJP needs a pot of donations towards the cause.
Quote from: lamrith on September 25, 2017, 01:29:31 PM
Finally back in town and playing catchup...
Toph! Sounds like you are definitely up in power from last time we spoke, that is great to hear after all the trials you went thru this summer.
As for your merging into traffic and giving throttle a kick. I know when I am going to engage in "playtime" I just go to Sport mode, then paddle shift down 1-2 gears which sets the car in rpm and power range and also saves the drivetrain from taking that hit on downshift. I wonder if that might help keep you from hitting some of those torque limiters? Just spit-balling ideas.. I am sure Brad will get you dialed as best as is possible and it's better to have a tune that works "right". But with big power hitting like it does sometimes might have to put some human intervention in place to help it behave the way you want.
I know I find it a blast to use the paddles when it is time to play in turns or situations where there is much speed changes, car just jumps at flick of throttle that way, no shift lag like you see when braking into a corner and then getting back on throttle.
Keep us updated! Any more track days at PIR for you this year?
Yup, on the rev-3 meth tune i did a 12.619 .. with a 1.86 or so 60ft (drop of .6 seconds). i just could not get the 60ft any lower. my start-of-run temps and spark were really high so the 1st half of my hole shot is bog city. BUT when that meth and timing hit it was a hell of a lot of fun to drive. lots of unhappy customers watching the child seat leave them behind.
but the rev 3 meth tune kicked it into performance territories the programming / advancement doesn't like. were working on it now but the weather is turning, my road is being farmed so i cant get datalogs to Brad. i am super-frustrated right now as i cant get the data to Brad, and I hate the weird shifting and fueling it is doing.
I will try a few more times for logs later this week.. hopefully we can tune around it but Brad's comments make me think it will be a tough task with the 2010-2012 platform NON-PP behaviors.
crossing fingers ..
I have a 2010 Non-PP and I don't have those issues... I ran a 12.35 when it was hot as hell... could be an issue in your strategy he needs to work over? I will say upgrading to the coilovers made a world of difference coming off the line without advance track kicking in.
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His source torque 18 is an attempt to eliminate a majority of the advance trac stepping in. Seems to work fairly well with straight line runs.. I have only had it kick in once since he made that change...
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 25, 2017, 03:23:04 PM
I have a 2010 Non-PP and I don't have those issues... I ran a 12.35 when it was hot as hell... could be an issue in your strategy he needs to work over? I will say upgrading to the coilovers made a world of difference coming off the line without advance track kicking in.
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One headache at a time ;) .. i am not mechanically inclined any more so lowering is out the window until i have someone else do it :)
Quote from: TopherSho on September 25, 2017, 03:14:17 PM
but the rev 3 meth tune kicked it into performance territories the programming / advancement doesn't like. were working on it now but the weather is turning, my road is being farmed so i cant get datalogs to Brad. i am super-frustrated right now as i cant get the data to Brad, and I hate the weird shifting and fueling it is doing.
I will try a few more times for logs later this week.. hopefully we can tune around it but Brad's comments make me think it will be a tough task with the 2010-2012 platform NON-PP behaviors.
crossing fingers ..
Yeah big weather change. Sept closing out like it normally is cool and rainy. wreaks havoc on traction for logging.
Question for the pro's out there.. There are enough of these cars out there, and they are getting wrecked a bit I am guessing.. What is the feasability of getting a ECU out of a wrecked PP car, that center console panel with the switches and swapping it in?
Quote from: lamrith on September 25, 2017, 04:28:52 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on September 25, 2017, 03:14:17 PM
but the rev 3 meth tune kicked it into performance territories the programming / advancement doesn't like. were working on it now but the weather is turning, my road is being farmed so i cant get datalogs to Brad. i am super-frustrated right now as i cant get the data to Brad, and I hate the weird shifting and fueling it is doing.
I will try a few more times for logs later this week.. hopefully we can tune around it but Brad's comments make me think it will be a tough task with the 2010-2012 platform NON-PP behaviors.
crossing fingers ..
Yeah big weather change. Sept closing out like it normally is cool and rainy. wreaks havoc on traction for logging.
Question for the pro's out there.. There are enough of these cars out there, and they are getting wrecked a bit I am guessing.. What is the feasability of getting a ECU out of a wrecked PP car, that center console panel with the switches and swapping it in?
Let me find the link... but IIRC there are several control modules that would need to be replaced plus you would need some one with the Ford IDS software to make the changes needed for it to work.
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Quote from: StealBlueSho on September 25, 2017, 04:33:03 PM
Quote from: lamrith on September 25, 2017, 04:28:52 PM
Quote from: TopherSho on September 25, 2017, 03:14:17 PM
but the rev 3 meth tune kicked it into performance territories the programming / advancement doesn't like. were working on it now but the weather is turning, my road is being farmed so i cant get datalogs to Brad. i am super-frustrated right now as i cant get the data to Brad, and I hate the weird shifting and fueling it is doing.
I will try a few more times for logs later this week.. hopefully we can tune around it but Brad's comments make me think it will be a tough task with the 2010-2012 platform NON-PP behaviors.
crossing fingers ..
Yeah big weather change. Sept closing out like it normally is cool and rainy. wreaks havoc on traction for logging.
Question for the pro's out there.. There are enough of these cars out there, and they are getting wrecked a bit I am guessing.. What is the feasability of getting a ECU out of a wrecked PP car, that center console panel with the switches and swapping it in?
Let me find the link... but IIRC there are several control modules that would need to be replaced plus you would need some one with the Ford IDS software to make the changes needed for it to work.
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no worries SBS, sounds like more hsasle than worth for benefit..
This guy reprogrammed his modules... he didn't say much on how he did it... but it at least goes over all the modules in that need work...
http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/115-5th-6th-gen-engine-drivetrain/184106-sho-pp-addon-s-non-pp-car-first-up-stability-defeat-4.html (http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/115-5th-6th-gen-engine-drivetrain/184106-sho-pp-addon-s-non-pp-car-first-up-stability-defeat-4.html)
There was another post about it... but I can't seem to find it... anyway... the end result was that it is a lot work and you need to know someone with the right software that is willing to work with you...
would seem to be right up in Jason's neck of the woods ... Except I don't think he works on pre-2013MYs anymore?
Quote from: SHOdded on September 25, 2017, 04:52:32 PM
would seem to be right up in Jason's neck of the woods ... Except I don't think he works on pre-2013MYs anymore?
This is correct, a few guys have reached out and Jason said he only does the 2013+ cars now.
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JMR061 is his user forum user name, in the event anyone is looking for him.
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FWIW my APIM for NAV is still working as designed. :) Thanks to Jason @ http://www.fordpimods.com/ (http://www.fordpimods.com/) . Z
Quote from: polskifacet on September 25, 2017, 02:30:47 PM
Just pull out the abs fuse and call it a day lol
SBS and I spoke briefly about this when trying to fight our TQ15 demons, I believe before he was alky injected.
For science, I gave it a go, and yeah it works 100% on my 2012 nonPP. Instrument cluster lights up like a Christmas tree and the DIC freaks out telling me all the errors, but Advancetrak is beaten.
I don't condone this as a full time solution, but if you want 0 intervention from Advancetrak for say, track use, I'd say give it a shot.
Na, the brakes are bad enough (not sufficient) so I am not comfortable with that idea. Brad will see what he can do. And we will see where we get with him coding around it.
If all else fails then I will roll back to the last meth tune that did not have the issue and call it good. I liked the power of rev3, in a dragrace rev3 made some easy kills out in PIR.. but as soon as we went rev3 the tq errors came on strong and make daily driving very much un-enjoyable.
finger crossed, Brad has been amazing, and has tunes on stronger rigs so i am very hopeful.
added a new log... check out timestamp 359+ .. it is slow roll into a farm road in 1st gear. i floor it and it does some super sketchy power management. it stop all power *hard* and a little scary then goes nutz
FWIW Bad worn out brakes along with your (speed sensors) can make your car act funky at times,especially worn out tires,safety aspect comes to mind,food for thought my friend. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on September 25, 2017, 10:30:58 PM
FWIW Bad worn out brakes along with your (speed sensors) can make your car act funky at times,especially worn out tires,safety aspect comes to mind,food for thought my friend. Z
Interesting! I have tons of pad left currently, I was referring to the fact the oem nonpp brakes are weak.
Quote from: TopherSho on September 25, 2017, 09:44:44 PM
Na, the brakes are bad enough (not sufficient) so I am not comfortable with that idea. Brad will see what he can do. And we will see where we get with him coding around it.
If all else fails then I will roll back to the last meth tune that did not have the issue and call it good. I liked the power of rev3, in a dragrace rev3 made some easy kills out in PIR.. but as soon as we went rev3 the tq errors came on strong and make daily driving very much un-enjoyable.
finger crossed, Brad has been amazing, and has tunes on stronger rigs so i am very hopeful.
added a new log... check out timestamp 359+ .. it is slow roll into a farm road in 1st gear. i floor it and it does some super sketchy power management. it stop all power *hard* and a little scary then goes nutz
Hopefully no one looks through my download history and sees i downloaded a file with the words "big, log, and tranny" LOL!!
Quote from: Colorado-SHOBro on September 26, 2017, 01:07:13 AM
Quote from: TopherSho on September 25, 2017, 09:44:44 PM
Na, the brakes are bad enough (not sufficient) so I am not comfortable with that idea. Brad will see what he can do. And we will see where we get with him coding around it.
If all else fails then I will roll back to the last meth tune that did not have the issue and call it good. I liked the power of rev3, in a dragrace rev3 made some easy kills out in PIR.. but as soon as we went rev3 the tq errors came on strong and make daily driving very much un-enjoyable.
finger crossed, Brad has been amazing, and has tunes on stronger rigs so i am very hopeful.
added a new log... check out timestamp 359+ .. it is slow roll into a farm road in 1st gear. i floor it and it does some super sketchy power management. it stop all power *hard* and a little scary then goes nutz
Hopefully no one looks through my download history and sees i downloaded a file with the words "big, log, and tranny" LOL!!
Oh I have soooo much fun in restaurants with this topic when the gang hangs out::
"Yeah I banged the tranny real hard .. started slipping so i changed out the lube .."
"I should have been doing meth YEARS ago. Im going back to the dealer right after lunch!"
"I ran that b*tch HARD when she got tired i feed her more meth and got back on it .."
The looks I get .. priceless ..
Quote from: dubcitySHO on September 25, 2017, 09:25:30 PM
Quote from: polskifacet on September 25, 2017, 02:30:47 PM
Just pull out the abs fuse and call it a day lol
SBS and I spoke briefly about this when trying to fight our TQ15 demons, I believe before he was alky injected.
For science, I gave it a go, and yeah it works 100% on my 2012 nonPP. Instrument cluster lights up like a Christmas tree and the DIC freaks out telling me all the errors, but Advancetrak is beaten.
I don't condone this as a full time solution, but if you want 0 intervention from Advancetrak for say, track use, I'd say give it a shot.
Yea, does your rear wheels still get power? Which fuse was it?
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Yes my rear wheels still had power. It is the #9 ABS Pump fuse in the box near the battery.
The only immediate downside was all the indicator lights and warnings. Still had all normal drivability, with the obvious lack of any ABS function whatsoever.
Quote from: dubcitySHO on September 26, 2017, 08:08:57 PM
Yes my rear wheels still had power. It is the #9 ABS Pump fuse in the box near the battery.
The only immediate downside was all the indicator lights and warnings. Still had all normal drivability, with the obvious lack of any ABS function whatsoever.
Nothing a little electrical tape can't hide!
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I have rolled back to rev22 (meth rev2) and am retesting. I am waiting to hear back from Brad who is hideously (and understandably) busy.
I may propose we start making much smaller edits to this tune versus the large jump we made in rev23 (meth rev3)
That's crazy yours is failing I've ran 100% meth before with no issues ran it for over a year now. They do state that it's possible to run 100 % meth but they highly don't recommend it I wish alky was cheaper but you gotta pay to play right! Hope all goes well man!
Quote from: AdrianSHO on October 19, 2017, 04:25:09 PM
That's crazy yours is failing I've ran 100% meth before with no issues ran it for over a year now. They do state that it's possible to run 100 % meth but they highly don't recommend it I wish alky was cheaper but you gotta pay to play right! Hope all goes well man!
turns out is is a issue with fueling/tune and the plastic lines. I was not getting proper fuel enrichment at specific conditions. we have tuned past that. now i am getting some power variations but i am pretty convinced its the shitty plastic lines from SNOW.
sigh... I will need to replace the lines with braided steel, and replace the pump for 4an connectors .. about 70% the kit cost. my fault for not doing enough research and buying a noT buying A polskifacet KIT ;)
Another mystery solved :thumb:
I have decided to turn off the meth for now. It is too cold and I am wondering if the issue is the meth not vaporizing.. at 375ml maybe I am getting wet in the cylinder but not enough to misfire. Weather in Oregon is moist as hell and cold so I am betting the meth is wasted a bunch as is .. bummed out.
It should be noted the lines and fittings from Snow are inevitable for a catastrophic event,failures waiting to happen. Z
Quote from: ZSHO on October 22, 2017, 06:41:45 PM
It should be noted the lines and fittings from Snow are inevitable for a catastrophic event,failures waiting to happen. Z
Yeah even thier support staff said to replace the lines in a year
Quote from: TopherSho on October 22, 2017, 05:50:14 PM
I have decided to turn off the meth for now. It is too cold and I am wondering if the issue is the meth not vaporizing.. at 375ml maybe I am getting wet in the cylinder but not enough to misfire. Weather in Oregon is moist as hell and cold so I am betting the meth is wasted a bunch as is .. bummed out.
Yeah we are now in prime boost lovers weather for the next many months. Challenge is traction is limited now, but makes AWD just that much more fun and a big reason why I bought the SHO!! I was noticing Sat on the way home from the range that I was cruising on the freeway @ 77* IAT2 Even sitting idling at a the 3rd light in 1/4mile I was just reaching 100*. I will not have the other benefits you have with Meth, but totally feel the change in performance from the cold air.
Air gets denser which helps for sure! Requires more fuel though for the same reasons... I suspect as usual we will start seeing posts about hesitations under WOT popping up here soon...
Meth in the winter helps offset that...