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A sad, sad day in the history of my SHO.....

Started by bpd1151, May 17, 2019, 09:37:05 PM

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Livernois Motorsports

Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.

Why do you need to see the build sheet?

What qualificat
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.

I 100% agree with statement.  I have always received build sheets for engines, and I still have quite a few even though I don't own the cars anymore. I always asked for two copies.  One that went with all of the other built motors in a file, and one that went with a file I made with everything that I had done to that particular car both in my safe. I had my piece of mind, and a way to protect myself from he said, she said. 

We don't give build sheets for crate engines nor do many shops. If you do a custom build

We don't give our clearances to customers openly.

Also stop with top fuel I ran a promod car (same engine) and know several of the top fuel guys. Quit talking about stuff you don't know. We put pistons in between rounds. Not one time did we stop and get the tools out to measure the s*** we put back in. Please ok. Your trying to find something here to bash Livernois and its simply not fair. If Mike was concerned with the build sheet he could of asked. Hes got my cell. Not once did he ask. If he did based on the text you seen its pretty apparent I bent over backwards for the guy. I am questioning why I did at this point.

Dan

I hope that your quote and statement wasn't toward me in your statement.  I have been very fair, and tried to keep the dialogue fair for both parties.  I don't have a horse in this race, but other people will in the future.

Moving onto engines of crate engine or not.  I always received a built sheet for all my motors except my junkyards ones.  Those ones I personally pulled.  I don't give a crap if you have secret tolerances or voodoo magic in your build.  I am not a typical customer.  I always put my hands on parts, and actually mark pistons, rods, and all caps when I put my hands on them.  This is in conjunction to a couple of other tricks I picked up while helping buddies build 7.99 index nitrous small blocks.  When the engine builder was done I go and look for all of my marks and other tricks then the short block is complete.  Checks and balances.  I also go over torque specs, and some cases check them myself with my own tq wrench in the shop to see if it matches the build sheet.  If I am spending 6 to 10 grand on an engine, you really think I give a crap on spending money on an airline ticket to make sure my engine is exactly what they say it is?   

I have been screwed before, and now I know how to play the game.  If an engine builder is not willing to meet my demands, they do not get my money period.   

Seems pretty simple to me. If you asked us for a build sheet you would get it.


ZSHO

#151
FYI- Both Mike and LMS should be heard equally without intervention for the time being! I think we should hear both sides of the story and respect that while being mindful! I appreciate your cooperation. Z


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Livernois Motorsports

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 04:52:07 PM
Conveniently Dan chooses to lop off certain texts messages as it fits his "story". Again an attempt to gloss over the whole story as he keeps claiming to put out there.

So Dan did post my text screenshots..... But what he fails to publicly disclose is that the conversation continued where he cut it off.

April 6th......

I did provide him an itemized list of recent mods completed. I also tell him how far I drove it (8.8 miles or 15min time total) and that I drove it easy. There were CEL'S for rich conditions bank 1 and 2, yes. Which I reported and which were to be expected. Not only cuz of the injectors, but also new wideband 02 sensors being lightning fast. The car idled fine. Drove fine. But knowing tune wasn't optimized, I didn't drive it aggressively. I've been told by several outside of LMS that mere idling or the drive it had, would NOT cause damage. He then proceeds to state the DW Injectors are "junk" and that every car they've used then in, they ripped 'em out and put them in the trash (remember this for later).

Concerned, I ask Dan if he prefers I trailer it, or if he can write me a temporary tune that would allow me to drive it up there safely? He asks about their newest touch screen device, if I've used yet (full disclosure, they did gift me that device last Summer of 2018) then we cease texting and Dan calls and we discuss the following over the phone.... updating the device first, then sending me a temporary revised tune file (of his creation) to allow me to drive it there.

See addt'l texts below.....

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



I conveniently put the text messages that mattered. This shows that you don't know much about engines. 5 minutes is enough to trash oil in a direct injection engine.

Can I ask again what the goal is here?

What do you want from us?

You fuel washed your engine and I offered to fix it for free?

Now please help everyone here your goal since you have stated "not to bash LME"

Dan

bpd1151

April 8th......

Vince in sales was very helpful in working between me, and the person who I was told developed their new touch screen device, in order to get it updated. Once revised tune is sent by Dan, it's uploaded, car is started. Again idled fine. No stumbles. No misfires. Most importantly.... no CEL's! Elated!

That night, I get up at like 4am in order to get the car out to LMS.

Once again, knowing I'm still on a temporary tune, I dare not push it. Arrive at LMS shortly after opening, and tell Vince how happy I was with the temporary tune. How well it ran, and even that I achieved my best MPG ever since owning this car new, gaining a stellar 27.1 MPG.

Vince tells me that it shouldn't take any longer than 1 week to get it re-dyno'd, as I had asked so that I could arrange to pick a rental, and when to expect retrieving my car, etc.

Well 1 week goes by. No updates. At the end of the 2nd week, I inquire of the status (now this is important because remember I am being blamed for any delays that occurred)

April 23rd......

I get picture text from Vince, showing car on dyno. That's it. I decide to call Vince (knowing you know, that Dan's a busy man and not desiring to inundate him) to ask about #'s, power levels etc. to which I am told no info available on that yet. I remind him of the impending National's, and the deadline looming. We disconnect with Vince advising he'd remind Dan.

April  24th.......

Dan texts, complaining about the injectors again. Mind you, 1 week, has now extended into 2 weeks, and we are now starting week 3. Dan hands it off to Andy (Ricketts) who sends multiple emails throughout remainder of that day.

1st email about necessity of changing plugs (mine were new, gapped at their recommendations, and have now been reinstalled in a Ford Flex since being returned to me, and have been running flawlessly since).

2nd email advising of necessity of changing injectors.

I question need for plugs, and cave on the DW Injectors, not happy ofcourse knowing I spent a lot of money on them and am now being told they're allegedly garbage. Dan asks about OE Injectors, and whether I can send mine in lieu of new. I opt to overnight ship my OE's out to a company in Ohio that reworked them over the weekend, and the overnighted them to LMS.

Andy quotes brand new OE Injectors, then I ask for a revised quote, as Dan inquired about me sending in my originals.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


bpd1151

April 24th (cont'd)......

During the aforementioned emails, Andy  questions the ability of the company in Ohio truly being able to re-work my original injectors. I replied in email, but then also called him, as it seemed easier than the back and forth.

During the call, Andy pressed me about purchasing their newest direct port injection meth setup. I ask why? He expounds about about proper delivery of meth to each cylinder, etc. etc. To entertain the discussion, I ask how much? He says he wasn't sure, but he believed "around $6,000". I balked and said well I'm not investing any further until we find out the issue with the injectors first. We disconnect.

I text Dan a screenshot sent to me of new speed record by Ryan Spencer (Unleashed Tuning), and that LMS (& me) no longer apparently holds that title. No replies are provided.

April 26th.......

I get a completely unsolicited communication from Matt Robinson over at Gearhead Tuning. Matt offers to help and interact directly with Dan. So now we have DW and GH assisting LMS on this.

Dan acknowledges having spoken with DW representatives, and also acknowledges that Matt Robinson from Gearhead may have a solution, but then later backpedals and says he learned that Matt at GH pirated a tune or software that LMS developed.

This despite Dan assuring me he'll "get it figured out".

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Livernois Motorsports

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 05:12:48 PM
April 8th......

Vince in sales was very helpful in working between me, and the person who I was told developed their new touch screen device, in order to get it updated. Once revised tune is sent by Dan, it's uploaded, car is started. Again idled fine. No stumbles. No misfires. Most importantly.... no CEL's! Elated!

That night, I get up at like 4am in order to get the car out to LMS.

Once again, knowing I'm still on a temporary tune, I dare not push it. Arrive at LMS shortly after opening, and tell Vince how happy I was with the temporary tune. How well it ran, and even that I achieved my best MPG ever since owning this car new, gaining a stellar 27.1 MPG.

Vince tells me that it shouldn't take any longer than 1 week to get it re-dyno'd, as I had asked so that I could arrange to pick a rental, and when to expect retrieving my car, etc.

Well 1 week goes by. No updates. At the end of the 2nd week, I inquire of the status (now this is important because remember I am being blamed for any delays that occurred)

April 23rd......

I get picture text from Vince, showing car on dyno. That's it. I decide to call Vince (knowing you know, that Dan's a busy man and not desiring to inundate him) to ask about #'s, power levels etc. to which I am told no info available on that yet. I remind him of the impending National's, and the deadline looming. We disconnect with Vince advising he'd remind Dan.

April  24th.......

Dan texts, complaining about the injectors again. Mind you, 1 week, has now extended into 2 weeks, and we are now starting week 3. Dan hands it off to Andy (Ricketts) who sends multiple emails throughout remainder of that day.

1st email about necessity of changing plugs (mine were new, gapped at their recommendations, and have now been reinstalled in a Ford Flex since being returned to me, and have been running flawlessly since).

2nd email advising of necessity of changing injectors.

I question need for plugs, and cave on the DW Injectors, not happy ofcourse knowing I spent a lot of money on them and am now being told they're allegedly garbage. Dan asks about OE Injectors, and whether I can send mine in lieu of new. I opt to overnight ship my OE's out to a company in Ohio that reworked them over the weekend, and the overnighted them to LMS.

Andy quotes brand new OE Injectors, then I ask for a revised quote, as Dan inquired about me sending in my originals.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Mike your engine is broken

What can we help with?

What is the purpose I ask again?

You created the problem I offered to fix it now you want to bash us?

shoNoff

#156
Quote from: Livernois Motorsports on July 15, 2019, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: GhostlyGrenade on July 15, 2019, 01:57:22 PM
Can we see the build sheet? I think those type of things are interesting.

Why do you need to see the build sheet?

What qualificat
Quote from: SM105K on July 15, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: shoNoff on July 15, 2019, 01:30:05 PM
I don't care if you are building a lawn mower engine or a top fuel dragster engine. A build sheet should be provided without the customer asking. Any and I mean any shop I've ever dealt with. Whether it was John Kaase race engines or archie's Go kart engines I received a build sheet. It's just proper engine building practices.

I 100% agree with statement.  I have always received build sheets for engines, and I still have quite a few even though I don't own the cars anymore. I always asked for two copies.  One that went with all of the other built motors in a file, and one that went with a file I made with everything that I had done to that particular car both in my safe. I had my piece of mind, and a way to protect myself from he said, she said. 

We don't give build sheets for crate engines nor do many shops. If you do a custom build

We don't give our clearances to customers openly.


Also stop with top fuel I ran a promod car (same engine) and know several of the top fuel guys. Quit talking about stuff you don't know. We put pistons in between rounds. Not one time did we stop and get the tools out to measure the s*** we put back in. Please ok. Your trying to find something here to bash Livernois and its simply not fair. If Mike was concerned with the build sheet he could of asked. Hes got my cell. Not once did he ask. If he did based on the text you seen its pretty apparent I bent over backwards for the guy. I am questioning why I did at this point.

Dan

I have some to say I'll be a bigger man and walk away. It's between you guys.
2013 SHO PP 12.51 @ 110.07 AJP tuned sold
2016 edge sport 13.92 @ 99.4 mph. slow and stock baby mobile

bpd1151

April 29th......

I ask for updates. Dan replies he's gonna work on it tomorrow.

Two days go by, I hear nothing. I ask for another update. This time Dan says he's "in training all week".

Well which one is it? You're working on it, or you're busy in training? (Remember, I was the one being blamed for the delays).

More time passes, and I hear nothing.

Suspecting Dan is too busy for me, I reach back out to Vince in sales by telephone multiple times between Monday May 6th and Wednesday May 8th.

I press Vince about the fact my back is against the wall, and I am out of time. I originally had asked about picking car up on Friday, May 10th. But my wife reminds me of the pending college graduation that same day, for our oldest daughter. Crap. Well I ask if I can pick up on Saturday the 11th. I know that LMS hosted their 1st 2019 CAD on Saturday the 11th, so I tell Vince I'll do whatever it takes to pick up my car on Saturday. Whether 1st thing in the morning, or in the afternoon, whenever. Vince tells me to aim for business opening and he'll coordinate with Dan.

Friday, May 10th (morning of)......

I recieve the following text from Vince (see below).

So as of that morning, I am being led to believe that all is well and that any previous tuning issues have been resolved in their entirety, and that the car will for sure be ready for pickup. Great I'm thinking to myself, but I was also very busy that same morning getting ready for daughter's graduation, the drive downtown (horrible on a Friday morning).

Now this is important because LMS has claimed that the engine was damaged by me from the onset. They claimed they didn't know about injectors. But yet they wrote me a temporary tune which for all inclusive purposes seemed fantastic! But then they're also claiming that they "knew right away" that something was awry, and that they "caught it in time" (on the dyno). So if all of that was true, and it was known from early on (perhaps on April 23rd's dyno session??) Then why only hours later after receiving the below text from Vince, implying it would be ready for pickup, did Dan call me at 2:30pm CDT (3:30pm EDT) to drop the bombshell news into my lap???

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


bpd1151

April 10th (cont'd.).......

During that phone conversation, Dan tells me that the car won't be ready. Startled knowing the earlier text from Vince, I quip "What? Whaddya mean it won't be happy?"

Dan replies "The motor is not happy". I ask "What does that mean exactly? Like don't take it to the track? Ok, that's fine, I'll see you tomorrow, as I MUST PICK IT UP. I'll drive it gingerly to the National's and after that events over, I'll drop it back off".

Dan replies "Oh no, like it's not driveable. At all. The motor has to come out".

I nearly $h!t myself. I thought I was in the twilight zone, or getting pranked and began looking around for Ashton Kutcher.

Nope. This was real.

I ask Dan what went wrong, what happened? Dan replies "Well we don't know for sure. That's why the motor has to come out".

Now nearly ready to faint, I start fast forwarding in my head thinking about the National's. I begin frantically asking Dan repeatedly about getting this corrected in time for the Nat's, and I remind how important, and what a HUGE honor it was/is to gave been graciously chosen as "Featured Vehicle" and the notoriety that would come with that, both for him, his company, as well as me individually.

Dan expounds informing me that he would have to pull at least 2 of his mechanics off of/away from other customer's jobs in order to even try and make the National's, even then it was not likely. I press further, and Dan said the only way he might (and he stressed might) be able to get it done on Friday, May 31st) but even then, that would entail me picking it up from their facility that morning, and driving it directly from LMS, to the Nat's.

I replied desperately that that was unacceptable as the show began that morning, and once spectators are allowed entry, no cars are allowed to be driven around etc. I said besides, if I left your place at 9am, it'd still be a 7hr-ish drive, placing me at the venue by mid, to late afternoon. I'd have no time to detail it, etc. and I reminded him that I had other things left to complete.

Dan then had the nerve to tell me the following after having heard me beg, plead, etc. to get this done in time for the Nat's....

"You know Mike, that event, that's a personal thing, something strictly just for you, it does absolutely nothing for me, so like I don't care if you don't make it".

Holy hell wait what? What did I just hear? I didn't just hear him say that to me. His biggest and best customer of several years and wow, really?

I was so mad, it was at this point I realized that my family, who was still seated inside the restaurant downtown, post graduation, that they were all staring at me, and knowing my food was getting cold, I changed gears and told Dan that I can't talk right now. His timing was incredibly poor. I knew he would be busy tomorrow (Saturday the 11th) hosting the CAD event, and that Sunday was Mother's day.

We both agreed to simply let this digest and sink in, and that we would recall each other the following Monday and discuss further.

NO PLANS OF ANY KIND WERE DISCUSSED OR AGREED UPON.

(it should be noted that Dan previously stated he was working through a backlog at the shop, and in our phone convo he reiterated how busy they were, and not even pulling 2 mechanics off would assure completion in time by the Nat's.

We disconnected and I went back inside and did my best to hide my disgust and disappointment from my daughter and family, as remember this was her day after all.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


bpd1151

May 10th (cont'd.)......

After returning home later in the evening, and all family having departed, I still had this sick feeling in my stomach that I was not being told everything that happened.

I felt I had lost control. My car was 4.5hrs away, to which I drove it there running perfectly (and under load mind you, as it was the expressway after all) and now I'm being told a motor drop. Crazy.

I made the executive decision to have a tow company proceed to LMS to retrieve my car. I was in no financial standing to address this issue at the moment, so getting it back in my hands was VERY IMPROTANT to me. Even if it just sat in my garage collecting dust.

I contracted with Grand Beach Towing that evening and then immediately recalled Dan. He did not answer. I left him a Voice Mail. In that Voice Mail I told him that I knew we agreed to talk on Monday, but I had to speak with him, that it was important, and that I had put "some things in motion" that needed to be discussed.

Silence. Crickets. All weekend long. This was the 1st time ever that Dan has failed to return  my call.

Ok. No worries. Monday morning May 13th comes and approximately 10min. prior to LMS opening for the day, I send a (group) text to BOTH Dan AND Vince, advising to stop any work on my car and that a tow truck will be arriving to retrieve my car.

See below.

I recieve no reply. Odd. I communicate with my tow driver who tells me that he had arrived at LMS around 11am (EDT) and that upon entry into the front sales area, Vince greets him and shows him my text and says to the driver something along the lines of "Oh yea, this must be you here, Mike texted and we knee you were coming. Let me go get the owner for you".

Ring ring ring goes my phone. Dan calls and sounds startled/surprised. Asks me what's going on and why is there a tow truck at his business wanting to retrieve my car? Dan continues without allowing me to answer saying that he really wished I would've given him a heads up, or told him ahead of time.

I replied to Dan that I tried to tell him. I called on Friday evening and left you a Voice Mail.

Dan says poignantly "Well I'm very busy, I don't really listen to my voice mails, you know, I have like a lot of spammers calling me and what not".

I then inform him that I texted BOTH him AND Vince prior to business opening (look at time stamp below) to inform them of the impending tow.

Dan says that he was busy and "just read (my text) now". Well that's odd, cuz Vince acknowledged reading it and greeted the tow driver as such.

Dan asks again why is a tow truck there? I tell him that it was a very long weekend, my wife was super pissed about this whole situation, and that I can't afford to do this right now, so that's why the tow truck is there. I continue, besides you told me Friday you were too busy to work on my car, and knowing it wasn't going to be able to make the Nat's, I saw no point in my car remaining there.

Dan offers to "eat the labor" on engine removal and the tear down, but proceeds to tell me that I would have to pay for any parts accordingly.

I thanked him, told him that was a very gracious offer, but why would I agree to paying for any/all parts, as he told me previously that he did not know what was wrong with the motor to begin with, and as far as I was concerned, that was essentially an "open ended ticket" (for parts) which could cost me untold thousands. Thank you but no thank you.

Release my car please.

Dan sounds concerned now. He's pleading with me to leave the car there. I decline.

He tells me how he doesn't understand how I could turn down such an offer. I tell him if I were to accept his offer, would he pay for my tow then? He answered with a laugh, NO. Well then just release my car.

He then said well it's gonna be a while. I ask why? He says he started work on it already.

Once again, I was like wait, what?

I said what do you mean you began work on it? I never authorized any type of work, do you have any authorization from me saying to remove engine or begin tearing it down? No you do not.

Well I thought we were friends Mike. I had a guy spend 2hrs on it on Friday (May 10th) and another guy spend 2hrs on it this morning.

Shocked, I asked what work was done, and how long exactly is it going to take? Dan says he doesn't know what was done, maybe the CAI was removed, I'm not sure, I'll have to ask the guys in the shop.

Again, what was done Dan? He replies, that he feels like I'm putting him in a real bind, and  he goes back to stating he doesn't understand how I can turn down his offer of "free".

Concerned about how long my tow driver would have to wait (& me having to pay more to him for waiting around) I ask how much longer? Dan says maybe about an hour.

We disconnect so Dan can go talk to his "guys in the shop".

I tell my tow driver of the unexpected delays.

Tow driver tells me that Vince returned to the sales area and informed him the subframe was down, and some other parts removed, and that it was going to be a while.

Dan texts me back, asks if I want the car reassembled.  I ask again what was taken apart. He doesn't answer.

I expound that I don't understand what was taken apart, and how the motor broke, especially when I drove it there and it was fine.

Dan then proceeds to clarify his offer of "free" and continues stating that they will fix my car on THEIR TIMEFRAME, and that as long as it's not completely unusable, this "should" not cost me anything. Notice the "should". His escape route to charge me...... ??

Dan continues advising that he would allow me to reinstall it (the motor).

Wait what? Soooooooo you're gonna remove the motor, tear it down, make me pay for an unknown quantity of parts, then allow me to install it myself afterwards?

Ummmm...... doesn't sound free to me.

I tell Dan that I realize I there may be a pending bill and that he probably wants me to pay that to release my car.

Dan says "I don't do billing". Well that's ok Dan, I have the emails from Andy, let me add it up for you. Dan replies again that he doesn't do billing. Ok then Dan, then transfer me to someone who will take my money.

Dan replies "No that's ok, I'll just go ahead and release your car."

I recall tow driver, tell him what's going on. He asked what my car looked like and I sent him pics. He replies to me that him and I needed to talk after he clears LMS.

Tow driver tells me that employees drove my car out to his truck. I was puzzled. Huh, I was told it was "not driveable" but yet they drove it out to you? He then says he proceeds to load up the car while it's running. Gets it on the bed. Goes to shut car off and secure, but has no key. He goes back and asks for the key. Employees tell him they don't know where the key is at. Now he was like you guys just drove the car out to me. They made him wait even longer. Dan offered the driver directly to pay ONLY FOR his additional waiting time. Tow driver declines, just asks for the key again.

So he waits. As do I.

Some time later Vince pops back into the equation, calls me and apologies saying he was removed from the picture and he only heard something went wrong and he seemed genuinely concerned that things didn't go as planned.

Vince tells me I then need to sign a form. I say ok, send it on over. He sends me the same form I signed when I dropped the car off 4 weeks earlier. Puzzled I ask where he needs me to sign? He tells me. Then I read the mumbo jumbo and laugh and tell him I'm not signing that. He asks if he should go get Dan. I tell him politely NO, that if Dan reintroduced him into the equation, then that pretty much tells me Dan's done with me. I proceed to tell Vince what I WILL WRITE (on this form) and nothing further.

15min later (at approximately 1:45pm EDT) my tow driver tells me the vehicle was released and he was on his way. Mind you he arrived at their facility at approximately 10:30am EDT. So that's just over 3hrs of him waiting around.

I ask him what he needs to talk to me about? He tells me that he saw my car parked OUTSIDE the entire time, and that it appeared no work was being done on it. He saw it surrounded by a bunch of other cars, that he watched them moving around to get mine clear.




Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


bpd1151

What else? I'm trying my best to keep everything in order and sequence (relevant) texts and other supporting info coordinated.

Oh yes, almost forgot.

Despite Dan having poo poo'd the DW Injectors, saying outright that they're trash, Dan had the gumption to ask me if he could keep them for his own purposes. I kind of laughed at this, but entertained his request, and asked if he would discount labor in exchange and below texts were his replies....

Ironic that they're so bad, that they supposedly ruined my motor, that other customers cars they used them in that they ripped 'em out and threw them in the trash. But now he wants them?

Even going so far as to say he's purchased several sets over the years and now wants mine for free?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


bpd1151

What else?

I was personally told that it was a closed deck and I was also personally told that the oil passages were modified for better flow and lubrication. Neither of which was the case.


I was also told at the time this LONG BLOCK motor was built for me, that mine WAS NOT Livernois's 1st EcoBoost build and that (if memory serves me correctly) that 3 or 4 others existed at that time.

How would I ever know, right? Not like I ever planned on re-opening the engine after all.

Funny to see the proverbial hat being rung around the Youtube video, and confirming that that's supposedly my engine displayed.

If one looks closely at I think the 41 second mark, one can see the deck surface exposed and that the deck in that video is smooth and presents no indication of gouges all across the deck surface, as was found in my actual block when torn down by a 3rd, neutral, non-biased vendor.

Things that make you go hmmmm.....

What else?

Oh yea, the oil report. Funny how it's being reported publicly that the oil was allegedly new/fresh. Well I can tell you all yet again, from a 3rd party, neutral vendor (Blackstone) they estimated in their report the oil to NOT BE NEW, and that their chemical analysis indicated it has approximately 6,000 miles on it. Oh wait? That must've been overlooked. Again, conveniently.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


bpd1151

And finally, despite Dan having declined taking my money on three separate occasions when I asked him to do so, and then he goes on the boards here couple of weeks back (beginning of June) claiming "free free free" everything's free, as if there was some sort of firestorm sale going on at LMS......

Privately Dan has the gall to ask me to settle any outstanding bill. See text below.

Claiming free engine removal and tear down, which I know what is costing me currently, but then he wants to clamor about settling after he declined me 3x.

Unreal. Made only worse when Dan goes onto to tell the community to stand by and just wait, that they have the latest and greatest in tuning getting ready to be released soon.

I mean really? Geezuz. Ever the proverbial salesman. Display some couth. Which apparently can't be done even here, today, when I asked politely to allow me to post, uninterrupted.

Nope. Just couldn't hold it. Posting of text's that one party believes are relevant, while entirely dismissing what the other party believes are relevant (as will the community as a whole will likely agree are relevant as well) is just plain arrogant.

At this point, I am done.

My point in posting this, was simply for the community to know what took place. Nothing more, nothing less. My motivations do not involve you or your company anymore.

Time for me to sip someone else's Koolaid.

Finally, the subframe was never dropped in my car, as none of the LED lighting was cut to the LCA's and other areas necessary to do so, in order to just drop the subframe to begin with.

Whoever previously pointed out about the banner change on my windshield....  y'all are like prophetic! Scary!

I'm done. Good luck to LMS.

Thanks everyone for trudging through the long posts.

Carry on and good luck to each and all of you with your Ecoboosts!

Signing off. Going to bed. I worked an 18hr shift and have been up for 26hrs straight at this point.

Good night.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Livernois Motorsports

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
April 10th (cont'd.).......

During that phone conversation, Dan tells me that the car won't be ready. Startled knowing the earlier text from Vince, I quip "What? Whaddya mean it won't be happy?"

So, just to clarify we took the time to let you know immediately about the situation (or immediately after we had something to relay), this is not a negative, this is how quickly things can change.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Dan replies "The motor is not happy". I ask "What does that mean exactly? Like don't take it to the track? Ok, that's fine, I'll see you tomorrow, as I MUST PICK IT UP. I'll drive it gingerly to the National's and after that events over, I'll drop it back off".

Dan replies "Oh no, like it's not driveable. At all. The motor has to come out".

I nearly $h!t myself. I thought I was in the twilight zone, or getting pranked and began looking around for Ashton Kutcher.

Nope. This was real.

I ask Dan what went wrong, what happened? Dan replies "Well we don't know for sure. That's why the motor has to come out".

And the statement was correct, but in a different light than what you are relaying. We were sure of what failed, we were not sure what all it entailed and what else could need to be addressed.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Now nearly ready to faint, I start fast forwarding in my head thinking about the National's. I begin frantically asking Dan repeatedly about getting this corrected in time for the Nat's, and I remind how important, and what a HUGE honor it was/is to gave been graciously chosen as "Featured Vehicle" and the notoriety that would come with that, both for him, his company, as well as me individually.

Dan expounds informing me that he would have to pull at least 2 of his mechanics off of/away from other customer's jobs in order to even try and make the National's, even then it was not likely. I press further, and Dan said the only way he might (and he stressed might) be able to get it done on Friday, May 31st) but even then, that would entail me picking it up from their facility that morning, and driving it directly from LMS, to the Nat's.

I replied desperately that that was unacceptable as the show began that morning, and once spectators are allowed entry, no cars are allowed to be driven around etc. I said besides, if I left your place at 9am, it'd still be a 7hr-ish drive, placing me at the venue by mid, to late afternoon. I'd have no time to detail it, etc. and I reminded him that I had other things left to complete.

We understood, and were giving you the facts about what we had to do to even have a shot of getting it done, and based on our experience with having a featured car, we were conveying it's not as imperative as you think to get there by a certain deadline. our ZL1 was chosen in the past, and you just have a barn that you go into for the featured vehicles with direct access to load/unload. there were several featured cars with us that got there hours after the show started.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Dan then had the nerve to tell me the following after having heard me beg, plead, etc. to get this done in time for the Nat's....

"You know Mike, that event, that's a personal thing, something strictly just for you, it does absolutely nothing for me, so like I don't care if you don't make it".

Remember the context to this, and the message that came with it. First was the context of reminding you that you chose to do these modifications before taking the car to the event. No one here told you to mess with this. Had we been consulted about it, we would always advise to take the time to do it without a deadline, and all kinds of time, energy, and money would have been saved. But getting back to what was said, no one ever said we didn't care. What WAS said is that this event and featured car, along with what you were trying to do was for you primarily, because you were trying to convince us that you were doing it all for us. All we did was remind you that it wasn't our choice to do these changes to the car, and it definitely wasn't for us since they weren't parts we recommend. So painting it like it was simply got a response reminding you that none of what you were trying to accomplish was actually for us. Your car being there with, or without these changes would have the same result for us as a company. But to say we didn't care if you made it or not is not correct. we said you making it to the show was not our primary concern, fixing your car was.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
Holy hell wait what? What did I just hear? I didn't just hear him say that to me. His biggest and best customer of several years and wow, really?

I was so mad, it was at this point I realized that my family, who was still seated inside the restaurant downtown, post graduation, that they were all staring at me, and knowing my food was getting cold, I changed gears and told Dan that I can't talk right now. His timing was incredibly poor. I knew he would be busy tomorrow (Saturday the 11th) hosting the CAD event, and that Sunday was Mother's day.

We both agreed to simply let this digest and sink in, and that we would recall each other the following Monday and discuss further.

NO PLANS OF ANY KIND WERE DISCUSSED OR AGREED UPON.

So, you're saying we came to an agreement that we would all talk on Monday before doing anything. But a tow truck shows up with zero conversation about it, and you demanded your car. Does that sound like what was discussed?

We did say we would do our best to get the engine done by then, laid out the reality of what it would take to make that even have a chance to happen, confirmed we would push other customers off to get stuff done for you, offered for it to be zero cost (hence doing work that wasn't approved, can't really get paid for that, right?) and were minutes away from having the engine out when the driver showed up. NONE of that deserves any negativity because while we were finding ways to give you everything you wanted, all you cared about was getting it out of here.

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 06:17:49 PM
(it should be noted that Dan previously stated he was working through a backlog at the shop, and in our phone convo he reiterated how busy they were, and not even pulling 2 mechanics off would assure completion in time by the Nat's.

We disconnected and I went back inside and did my best to hide my disgust and disappointment from my daughter and family, as remember this was her day after all.

we didn't say it wouldn't be done, we said we weren't sure it would be done.  Kind of irrelevant to bring that up since your path you chose for sure didn't get it done. But again, we're horrible because we didn't just tell you what you wanted to hear. We told you the truth and immediately started working towards the path you wanted us to do for you, get it done by the show.

Honestly this is just like when your stock engine popped. We got blamed over and over again for it, when it was the way the methanol system was installed (not by us) that caused it to spray methanol for 10 seconds after shutting the engine off, which caused it to accumulated in the intercooler, and then hydrolock once it all got pushed into the engine. We gave you thousands of dollars of discounts on it because you thought it was broken from our tuning. So we stepped up to help. Now here we are 5+ years later dealing with more self inflicted failures and having the finger pointed at us, except you wouldn't even let us help, and then didn't even pay us for anything we did do.


Livernois Motorsports

Quote from: bpd1151 on July 15, 2019, 07:38:09 PM

Oh yea, the oil report. Funny how it's being reported publicly that the oil was allegedly new/fresh. Well I can tell you all yet again, from a 3rd party, neutral vendor (Blackstone) they estimated in their report the oil to NOT BE NEW, and that their chemical analysis indicated it has approximately 6,000 miles on it. Oh wait? That must've been overlooked. Again, conveniently.

You are so hell bent on believing we are lying you won't even take 2 seconds to comprehend what the oil analysis even says.

To help show you that you couldn't be more wrong, we will highlight the pertinent items:

"We're surprised to hear this engine failed. Wear metals are largely below the norm for a 3.5L
EB engine. You mentioned this should be new oil, though, so the sample may just not have been run long
enough to accumulate much metal
. Averages on the right are based on oil run about 6,000 miles. The
viscosity is thin for 5W/30, reading more like a 5W/20. That shouldn't cause engine failure, though, and
neither will a harmless trace of fuel dilution. No coolant or dirt was found. Molybdenum is just an oil additive,
not poor wear or contamination."

he is telling you there is no metal/debris in the oil. look at that engine you have pictures of. how is this possible? CAUSE THE OIL IS NEW

He doesn't say your oil appears to have 6,000 miles, he is REFERENCING an average oil sample from a 3.5EB that DID have 6,000 miles on the oil. CAUSE THE OIL IS NEW

Why is the viscosity thinner than the 5w30 you said? cause we only put oil in it for it to be able to run, which was, you guessed it, 5w20 because the damage was done, and we just needed to get oil in it so it could start again.

You want to drink someone else's kool aid, that's your choice. It's anyone choice. but completely ignoring facts, and literally lying about what your own posted report states just shows that you don't care about facts at all. I mean you are flat out contradicting your own evidence. why? cause your evidence corroborates what we said. facts be damned...