Put the pig on a lift.... crap..

[StealBlueSho]

Well... LMS won't remote tune ATPs... damn...


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[AJP turbo]

Hey just curious. Why are you so adamant about having a "dyno" tune for ATP turbos....I think you can have a really good tune without that. In fact with all the logging you do I think you get a better tune doing it remotely because you get much more data analysis for the money...I"ve said this before but on a dyno a lot of your time and money are sucked up flashing tunes and making runs...When you do it remotely the customer does a lot of the work which means more time from the tuner can be spent looking at data.

Doing Cams I think is where dyno tuning is beneficial because you can see results that you can't always feel.

If I met you at a dyno shop I would have so much more time invested in it and also being able to find the time that we are both free and a time the dyno shop is available would be near impossible.

[StealBlueSho]

Hey just curious. Why are you so adamant about having a "dyno" tune for ATP turbos....I think you can have a really good tune without that. In fact with all the logging you do I think you get a better tune doing it remotely because you get much more data analysis for the money...I"ve said this before but on a dyno a lot of your time and money are sucked up flashing tunes and making runs...When you do it remotely the customer does a lot of the work which means more time from the tuner can be spent looking at data.

Doing Cams I think is where dyno tuning is beneficial because you can see results that you can't always feel.

If I met you at a dyno shop I would have so much more time invested in it and also being able to find the time that we are both free and a time the dyno shop is available would be near impossible.

Honestly it is because without knowing how much power I am putting down I have no idea if the tune is safe. We have plenty of data points for the stockers to get an idea on how much power you are developing at a given psi/spark combination.

With the ATPs we are only guessing by a large margin.  I really don't want to blow the motor/trans/PTU/RDU by guessing at how much power I am developing based on logs. I can accept a blown component when due diligence has been done to make sure I am not pushing power past what they can handle. At that point it's one of those things was gonna happen regardless...I would be really unhappy if I blew something because I didn't do the leg work to make sure I wasn't pushing the components past what they can handle and blew something out of ignorance.

Every car is a bit different, mine tends to be more so with the SCT platform.

Its risk reward right? Do I take the risk in saving money by not dyno tuning that major of a change with the reward being I need to drop more cash on a blown motor or trans? Or do I play it safe?

You can disagree and I expect you too... I believe you are tuning Irondoors ATPs, has he dyno'd his setup to know much power he is developing?

12.5 psi on the stockers is much less air than 12.5 psi on the ATPs I would gather...






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[AJP turbo]

Yes all true but from what I know, the ATP's are only a few millimeters larger. I know stock turbos can make more than 400whp when pushed but let's say the efficient power is 400whp for the stockers then I'd be surprised if the ATP's would be more than 450-475 and I feel I'm being generous with that number.

I just don't see them being world's different with having wheels that are only 2mm different or even up to about 4mm.

Also I think you can make the argument that the power could be safer and better used...We could control tq in the midrange with less spark and boost but because the top end and airflow is better the ATP's would maintain more average torque and that is where the HP would come from...So essentially you would get more HP from less torque because you carry it better.

I would run the ATP's at 12-14 psi and see how it feels then add if you want.

[bpd1151]

Yes all true but from what I know, the ATP's are only a few millimeters larger. I know stock turbos can make more than 400whp when pushed but let's say the efficient power is 400whp for the stockers then I'd be surprised if the ATP's would be more than 450-475 and I feel I'm being generous with that number.

I just don't see them being world's different with having wheels that are only 2mm different or even up to about 4mm.

Oh Bradley.......*smh*...... the ATP's are larger than you know there sweet cheeks, and they're rated for more than you believe pumpkin.

Product info located here:

https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-SHO-001&Category_Code=35V6TRAN

Side note, looks like ATP has some interesting products coming for the 2.3L EB that are pending release. How exciting!

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[SHOdded]

I would actually drop to the 8-10 psi range with the ATPs and work up from there.  Yes, 8-10 psi is OEM boost zone LOL.

[bpd1151]

I would actually drop to the 8-10 psi range with the ATPs and work up from there.  Yes, 8-10 psi is OEM boost zone LOL.

The ATP's are still well within their comfort zone being in the low to mid 20 psi ranges.

I know 1st hand. Lol.

Now a factory block/internals though? Eh, not so comfortable.

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[Agentlongwood]

Whoa, 25psi?  Now we're talkin lol.  I was thinking the other day... When people talk about blowing the PTU or Trans, are they talking about from launching the car?  It seems like that is when the greatest stress would be on those parts.  So what about running much larger turbos or a big fat single turbo?  You could make more power, but not focus it all in the bottom end.  Hence, not really launch any harder but pull much harder from mid to top end.  Is that reasonable, or just naïve/oversimplifying the situation? 

[EcoPowerParts]

After all I've seen over the past few years to me the CHRA is the best solution long term for a stock block SHO and someone who doesn't want to build the bottom end. The ATP's add around 500RPM of lag while the CHRA/upgraded billet wheels don't. The ATP's can easily take out a short block after about 6 months when you think you're good and then all of a sudden you're not. The CHRA are maxed around 480WHP on race gas and within the comfort zone of the stock block and even more importantly transmission which has no upgrades available.
These are my opinions after selling and participating in many builds of the ATP and CHRA to compare now. The biggest thing is no matter what there's no solution for the transmission unfortunately and TQ takes it out quickly, weeks on the Flex due to additional weight and months on the SHO.
Nothing like replacing the trans every 6-8 months...

[SHOdded]

As long as Ford is willing to pick up the tab each time

[StealBlueSho]

As long as Ford is willing to pick up the tab each time

Ha!!!! No warranty on my 2010... the only tab being picked up is the one ford hands to me. Luckily being as I know righty tighty lefty loosey I can do most of my own work... ;-)


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[StealBlueSho]

After all I've seen over the past few years to me the CHRA is the best solution long term for a stock block SHO and someone who doesn't want to build the bottom end. The ATP's add around 500RPM of lag while the CHRA/upgraded billet wheels don't. The ATP's can easily take out a short block after about 6 months when you think you're good and then all of a sudden you're not. The CHRA are maxed around 480WHP on race gas and within the comfort zone of the stock block and even more importantly transmission which has no upgrades available.
These are my opinions after selling and participating in many builds of the ATP and CHRA to compare now. The biggest thing is no matter what there's no solution for the transmission unfortunately and TQ takes it out quickly, weeks on the Flex due to additional weight and months on the SHO.
Nothing like replacing the trans every 6-8 months...

That is my concern with the ATPs... which is why I would want a dialed in dyno tune.

The CHRA's can be dropped in without modifying your tune correct? And how long are your CHRAs lasting?


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[EcoPowerParts]

After all I've seen over the past few years to me the CHRA is the best solution long term for a stock block SHO and someone who doesn't want to build the bottom end. The ATP's add around 500RPM of lag while the CHRA/upgraded billet wheels don't. The ATP's can easily take out a short block after about 6 months when you think you're good and then all of a sudden you're not. The CHRA are maxed around 480WHP on race gas and within the comfort zone of the stock block and even more importantly transmission which has no upgrades available.
These are my opinions after selling and participating in many builds of the ATP and CHRA to compare now. The biggest thing is no matter what there's no solution for the transmission unfortunately and TQ takes it out quickly, weeks on the Flex due to additional weight and months on the SHO.
Nothing like replacing the trans every 6-8 months...

That is my concern with the ATPs... which is why I would want a dialed in dyno tune.

The CHRA's can be dropped in without modifying your tune correct? And how long are your CHRAs lasting?


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No I highly suggest a tune, they spool faster and make more boost.

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[FoMoCoSHO]

Mike, does the efficiency island change?

If so do you know at what boost level they move out of that zone?

[AJP turbo]

Mike, does the efficiency island change?

If so do you know at what boost level they move out of that zone?

Can't remeber who has them all but I've tuned ecopower parts wheel upgrades and 2 other brands of non atp wheel upgrades and they were all happy at 16-17 psi fuel was fine because they had meth....but they all needed wastegate tables reworked because they made boost so easy and spool from stock was not worse