e20 observation .. more HP but little TQ gains? why?

[FoMoCoSHO]

Topher, you've got mail....

You like to send mail a lot... just an observation lol

Yeah, that happens when I have attachments the forum won't take.

I think you can just zip them up and attach them...

I could but when someone sends me an email, its easier to just hit reply.

[lamrith]

There is one in NM and one in lb-ft

ENGINE TORQUE FLYWHEEL is in lb-ft

TORQUE AT FLYWHEEL is in NM.

DMRs are in all caps and don't show up on my DMR tab, they are mixed with everything.

These are the two that I was able to find in my strategy.

They must be pulling from different data or one has some other added influence as the numbers are not reading the same per just converting the unit of measure.

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[TopherSho]

Topher, you've got mail....

You like to send mail a lot... just an observation lol

Yeah, that happens when I have attachments the forum won't take.

Got them!  TY, will try it in a bit.  if they work i will log a few passes at PIR dragway tomorrow.

[lamrith]

Good luck tomorrow Topher!  Tear it up!

[TopherSho]

So Livelink lists 3 separate dmjk ECU firmwares.  is it safe to load a config that is the wrong firmware revision ?

I assume so since all the device is doing is polling the memory space for the values in the cells,  it will either be right or wrong but i thought to ask ...

[lamrith]

Following up on the torque data options...

Pulled PID/DMR from car lastnight and made a config file for SCTx4 and ran it in guage mode this morning.  I found 4 Torque entries in the list that seemed relevant (lots of datapoint with torque in name for various things)  Most are pterry clear what unit they are in, the last one has me baffled though given the max number relative to the others in picture below.  I make a bit of an assumption on unitS of measure given known output of these cars and the conversion factor...
PID: READING = CONVERSION
ENGINE BRAKE TORQUE: 607.26NM = 447.892lbft
ENGINE TORQUE FLYWHEEL: 447.41lbft = 606.6065NM
TORQUE AT FLYWHEEL: 649.23NM = 478.8475lbft
WHEEL TORQUE CONVERTED TO ENGINE TORQUE:837.29NM? = 617.5534lbft? (-20%drivetrain nets 494lbft)

Could the 1st three actually be at the wheels numbers and the last is at crank? I have seen a number of people with similar tunes running in the mid 400lbft's to wheels.  Last number with 20% loss ends up right @ 494lbft which would be high, but within range?...

What I am really curious about is how it is coming up with these numbers.  I hope to be able to get on a dyno here sometime soon and log these DMR's during pulls to get some real world comparison data.  I just have not been able to find a awd dynojet locally, they are all mustang or dynapack.

[derfdog15]

Following up on the torque data options...

Pulled PID/DMR from car lastnight and made a config file for SCTx4 and ran it in guage mode this morning.  I found 4 Torque entries in the list that seemed relevant (lots of datapoint with torque in name for various things)  Most are pterry clear what unit they are in, the last one has me baffled though given the max number relative to the others in picture below.  I make a bit of an assumption on unitS of measure given known output of these cars and the conversion factor...
PID: READING = CONVERSION
ENGINE BRAKE TORQUE: 607.26NM = 447.892lbft
ENGINE TORQUE FLYWHEEL: 447.41lbft = 606.6065NM
TORQUE AT FLYWHEEL: 649.23NM = 478.8475lbft
WHEEL TORQUE CONVERTED TO ENGINE TORQUE:837.29NM? = 617.5534lbft? (-20%drivetrain nets 494lbft)

Could the 1st three actually be at the wheels numbers and the last is at crank? I have seen a number of people with similar tunes running in the mid 400lbft's to wheels.  Last number with 20% loss ends up right @ 494lbft which would be high, but within range?...

What I am really curious about is how it is coming up with these numbers.  I hope to be able to get on a dyno here sometime soon and log these DMR's during pulls to get some real world comparison data.  I just have not been able to find a awd dynojet locally, they are all mustang or dynapack.

I believe they are all slightly different ways of estimating the engine torque, you can also calculate HP from the torque if you wish. As for the last one, I am relatively sure we have higher than 20% drivetrain loss, probably closer to 25%-30%. I was going to re-dyno my SHO while logging DMRs to see if I could calculate an average loss for my car, but as most know, its in the SHO graveyard now. I would bet you dyno pretty close to those first 3 numbers, and that variation in them is due to the estimation method and conversion factors/constants used.

[AJP turbo]

It comes up with those numbers based look up tables and algorithms in the Ecu. The OEM has done the leg work with mapping out the power output at various loads. The values you see in livelink may vary from real world due to different mods to the car.

It's pretty complicated though. But it has to know the torque values to knock how much boost to command...It's a great system but their are flaws and it's the culprit for limp mode and the wrench light often.

[f8tlSHO]

I got an email back from sct, gave me a number to call to get it straightened out!!! Yeah!!!!


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[TopherSho]

It comes up with those numbers based look up tables and algorithms in the Ecu. The OEM has done the leg work with mapping out the power output at various loads. The values you see in livelink may vary from real world due to different mods to the car.

It's pretty complicated though. But it has to know the torque values to knock how much boost to command...It's a great system but their are flaws and it's the culprit for limp mode and the wrench light often.

Hey AJP,  do you know if there is any hazard of running a datalog from a config file that might not match your firmware?   I found 3 dmjk profiles in LiveLink and configed a datalog profile for some of the DMRs discussed and a few more.  But was concerned about causing issues with the ECU trying to read values that may be wrong from the wrong cells in memory ..

thoughts ?

[StealBlueSho]

It comes up with those numbers based look up tables and algorithms in the Ecu. The OEM has done the leg work with mapping out the power output at various loads. The values you see in livelink may vary from real world due to different mods to the car.

It's pretty complicated though. But it has to know the torque values to knock how much boost to command...It's a great system but their are flaws and it's the culprit for limp mode and the wrench light often.

Hey AJP,  do you know if there is any hazard of running a datalog from a config file that might not match your firmware?   I found 3 dmjk profiles in LiveLink and configed a datalog profile for some of the DMRs discussed and a few more.  But was concerned about causing issues with the ECU trying to read values that may be wrong from the wrong cells in memory ..

thoughts ?

No hazards.... they may just not read anything.

[TopherSho]

that's what i thought.  I will test and report.  if one of them works i will likely log a few runs at the Dragstrip in addition to the normal data logging for my analysis.

also plan on mythbusting the late-shift theory as well ..

[StealBlueSho]

that's what i thought.  I will test and report.  if one of them works i will likely log a few runs at the Dragstrip in addition to the normal data logging for my analysis.

also plan on mythbusting the late-shift theory as well ..

Hmm... I think the shift point changes are only going to validate whether YOUR cars tune does better shifting early/late...

I have seen lots of different ways these cars are tuned and some don't carry the boost out like AJP does...

[TopherSho]

hmm 6 runs best of 13.09 at 105.   datalog is being weird and not logging everything.   just reloaded the config4.dlx from APJ.

will try another data log.

example of weird... touquesource read 32?

[StealBlueSho]

Slips? What's the DA?