AJPTurbo boost regulator mod with EcoPowerParts charge pipes

[f8tlSHO]

What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StealBlueSho]

What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have the MBC on the vacuum line going to the wastegate?

If you do, then I would keep tightening the mbc down until you only hear the wastegate opening at the up shifts like Brad said...

If you keeping tightening and nothing changes then you need to check to make sure the MBC is not faulty or if you don't have it on the vacuum line directly off the wastegate move it there..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MiWiAu]

Well, I finally got my Turbosmart BRA installed.

ADAPTER MODIFICATION REQUIRED!!

I don't know if the MAP port is a larger diameter on the F150 vs transverse or if my manifold is just out of tolerance, but the adapter shoulder would NOT fit my MAP port.

I carefully removed the o-ring and decided to use a cheap Harbor Freight file and some emery paper to remove enough material from the shoulder to allow me to install the adapter.



Once the adapter is installed, the engine/beauty cover DOES NOT fit. I'm undecided if I want to get some spacers to allow me to reinstall the cover.



Functionally, there seems to be no effect on MAP readings (see below). I would have preferred that the screw included in the kit had the same type of head (T20 torx) as the OE screw to reduce tools required for change.

Looking forward to results, MiWiAu.    Probably won't affect the MAP readings, but would like to have field data to bear that out.  Good point about the appearance cover.  Run nekked!!!

Here is a comparison of baseline (MAP directly mounted to IM) to the Turbosmart Boost Reference Adapter.

You can see, overall the MAP readings averaged 4.2 to 4.7 kPa below TIP.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[f8tlSHO]

What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have the MBC on the vacuum line going to the wastegate?

If you do, then I would keep tightening the mbc down until you only hear the wastegate opening at the up shifts like Brad said...

If you keeping tightening and nothing changes then you need to check to make sure the MBC is not faulty or if you don't have it on the vacuum line directly off the wastegate move it there..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes on the correct line, don't want to sound like an ass, but I completely understand how this mod works. If I close the mbc fully the wastegate will not open. I thought I was getting it dialed in, then this morning the gate is opening about 2psi earlier than yesterday. It's hard to explain my issue through text without writing a small book. Lol. I think I am trying to close too much of a gap in psi with the mbc. May look at buying some different springs. I have the 13psi spring in, even with no mbc it shouldn't open until 13 or right around 13. It's opening around 7 psi..so trying to close that huge gap with the mbc might be too much. Was also thinking about using both springs and cutting the 7 psi spring down to cut back on the spring pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AJP turbo]

Im not sure but i think what might be happening is the mbc is either acting like a restrictor pill or a bleed off for the reference and with more and less boost going through the mbc its not giving the gate a linear type of reference?

[f8tlSHO]

Im not sure but i think what might be happening is the mbc is either acting like a restrictor pill or a bleed off for the reference and with more and less boost going through the mbc its not giving the gate a linear type of reference?

I don't know if you saw earlier but my reference line right now is about 3" away from the gate, that's why I was thinking about moving it to the brake booster line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[derfdog15]

I don't know if you saw earlier but my reference line right now is about 3" away from the gate, that's why I was thinking about moving it to the brake booster line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think trying the brake booster, or the TIP reference would be a good idea, due to how close your reference is, as I mentioned before. My fear is that when the gate is open, your reference is dropping and thus you may be getting some chatter/opening and closing that is not needed and causing pressure issues.

Yes on the correct line, don't want to sound like an ass, but I completely understand how this mod works. If I close the mbc fully the wastegate will not open. I thought I was getting it dialed in, then this morning the gate is opening about 2psi earlier than yesterday. It's hard to explain my issue through text without writing a small book. Lol. I think I am trying to close too much of a gap in psi with the mbc. May look at buying some different springs. I have the 13psi spring in, even with no mbc it shouldn't open until 13 or right around 13. It's opening around 7 psi..so trying to close that huge gap with the mbc might be too much. Was also thinking about using both springs and cutting the 7 psi spring down to cut back on the spring pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mentioned there was a 7 and 13 PSI spring, and both were in the gate to make 20? How are the springs marked? Any chance that you have them swapped. The TiAL gate springs max out at 6PSI for an individual spring IIRC, so that also seems a bit weird. I think maybe you were shorted a spring, and there were supposed to be 3 to make 20, 2 to make 13, and 1 to make 7? Could be wrong, but it seems if TiAL (and Precision as well - have a 44mm wastegate of theirs for my mustang) give you 6 springs and none even rate at 7psi individually, then there must be a reason!

Well, I finally got my Turbosmart BRA installed.

ADAPTER MODIFICATION REQUIRED!!

I don't know if the MAP port is a larger diameter on the F150 vs transverse or if my manifold is just out of tolerance, but the adapter shoulder would NOT fit my MAP port.

I carefully removed the o-ring and decided to use a cheap Harbor Freight file and some emery paper to remove enough material from the shoulder to allow me to install the adapter.



Once the adapter is installed, the engine/beauty cover DOES NOT fit. I'm undecided if I want to get some spacers to allow me to reinstall the cover.



Functionally, there seems to be no effect on MAP readings (see below). I would have preferred that the screw included in the kit had the same type of head (T20 torx) as the OE screw to reduce tools required for change.

Looking forward to results, MiWiAu.    Probably won't affect the MAP readings, but would like to have field data to bear that out.  Good point about the appearance cover.  Run nekked!!!

Here is a comparison of baseline (MAP directly mounted to IM) to the Turbosmart Boost Reference Adapter.

You can see, overall the MAP readings averaged 4.2 to 4.7 kPa below TIP.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would be interesting to see the two data sets overlaye onto each other, for complete 1:1 comparison. I also am interested to know if it changed any wastegate mod performance for you. I think their may just be manufacturing tolerance/location differences due to transverse that caused your fitment issue, but not entirely sure.

[StealBlueSho]

What is making you think you arent getting the proper result?...what are you attempting to hear/see?

I had it yesterday opening around 22kpa this morning it was 18-19... maybe I need a heavier spring. I feel like I turn the knob 20 turns and nothing changes, it turns a lot from fully open to fully closed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?

I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.

Sorry not kpa, I meant psi. So like 7psi boost because of the 14.5 atmosphere psi. It's opening way early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have the MBC on the vacuum line going to the wastegate?

If you do, then I would keep tightening the mbc down until you only hear the wastegate opening at the up shifts like Brad said...

If you keeping tightening and nothing changes then you need to check to make sure the MBC is not faulty or if you don't have it on the vacuum line directly off the wastegate move it there..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes on the correct line, don't want to sound like an ass, but I completely understand how this mod works. If I close the mbc fully the wastegate will not open. I thought I was getting it dialed in, then this morning the gate is opening about 2psi earlier than yesterday. It's hard to explain my issue through text without writing a small book. Lol. I think I am trying to close too much of a gap in psi with the mbc. May look at buying some different springs. I have the 13psi spring in, even with no mbc it shouldn't open until 13 or right around 13. It's opening around 7 psi..so trying to close that huge gap with the mbc might be too much. Was also thinking about using both springs and cutting the 7 psi spring down to cut back on the spring pressure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh I know, just trying to help. I was just thinking it might be too much of gap... mine was only about a 1 psi gap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[f8tlSHO]

Originally I thought I was missing a spring also, but then I found this
With both springs in the gate wouldn't open so it had to have been closer to 20psi. That's why I was thinking about cutting down one spring to create a lower preload pressure which would create a lower opening pressure on the gate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[derfdog15]

Originally I thought I was missing a spring also, but then I found this
With both springs in the gate wouldn't open so it had to have been closer to 20psi. That's why I was thinking about cutting down one spring to create a lower preload pressure which would create a lower opening pressure on the gate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is truly odd, but I do stand corrected, precision uses springs larger than 6psi per spring. (they offer a 1.5, 3, 6,9, and 18psi spring) so 7 and 13 aren't that farfetched, assuming they work. I wonder if the Precision springs would work in the TiAL (I have a bunch at home ready to go into the mustang...)

Here is the Precision spring chart/install instructions, springs are page 8 for anyone interested: http://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/instruction-manuals/PTE-PW46-Wastegate-Instructions.pdf

As for your gate, IDK how cutting length on a spring would do, I would test the actual springs first.
If you end up going the spring route, I am not sure if you would need F38 style springs, or MV-S springs.
Here is the reference for the MV-S
http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MVSspc.png
and here is the individual spring rating:
https://www.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/00000001/data/MVSprings2.jpg

Here is F38 (seems to have more combos - infact it has a 7 and a 13 psi spring, so I am betting your gate is replicated from this, as I said before)
http://www.tialsport.com/documents/w3_tial_38_sp.pdf

Good luck, as always, and keep us posted.

IMPROTANT UPDATE/IDEA: Take note of the bleeder valve Boost Controller install mentioned in the precision instructions. It would be a worth a try here. Basically a T going from your vacuum reference to BOTH the wastegate (bottom reference) and MBC inlet. Then from MBC out to wastegate top port (which you currently have VTA I believe?)
This method creates a differential that may be more sufficient for replacing missing spring pressure. Hope this helps. Should work the same on your gate as well.

[f8tlSHO]

Cutting the spring should create less preload, which would create less pressure. I have done this at work many times to get a desired pressure if I have a spring break in a die and I don't have the correct one to replace it. That's why I have the spring tester at work. The big spring is prob 5-6 inches long in its free state. Gets compressed down to 2-3 inches. A 6 inch spring compressed to 3 inches will have more pressure than the same spring at a free length of 4 inches compressed at the same rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[derfdog15]

Cutting the spring should create less preload, which would create less pressure. I have done this at work many times to get a desired pressure if I have a spring break in a die and I don't have the correct one to replace it. That's why I have the spring tester at work. The big spring is prob 5-6 inches long in its free state. Gets compressed down to 2-3 inches. A 6 inch spring compressed to 3 inches will have more pressure than the same spring at a free length of 4 inches compressed at the same rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gotcha, I have never done it so was not aware of the theory/practice. Also, did you see my edit to the last post, about the "Bleeder Valve" method of boost controller? May be worth a shot.

[MiWiAu]

Would be interesting to see the two data sets overlaye onto each other, for complete 1:1 comparison. I also am interested to know if it changed any wastegate mod performance for you. I think their may just be manufacturing tolerance/location differences due to transverse that caused your fitment issue, but not entirely sure.

I tried doing an overlay, but it was just too messy to read. I kept the Y axis scaled the same, so it should be fairly easy to see relative differences.

For this test, I kept my wastegate reference hooked up to the charge pipe, since the only variable I wanted to test was the Boost Reference Adapter (I plugged both ports on the BRA). After I completed the comparison (and was confident that my readings were consistent), I changed my gate springs from the 18.85 to the 17.40 springs, and hooked up my reference to the adapter. Now with the lighter springs, the gate is not opening, so the lower manifold reference seems to be doing what I want to.

I'm going to move back down to the 15.95 springs and see if that helps me dial it in, but I need to run through my current tank of gas and get some 93 put back in (got stuck at a station that only had 91 no-ethanol).

[MiWiAu]

Cutting the spring should create less preload, which would create less pressure. I have done this at work many times to get a desired pressure if I have a spring break in a die and I don't have the correct one to replace it. That's why I have the spring tester at work. The big spring is prob 5-6 inches long in its free state. Gets compressed down to 2-3 inches. A 6 inch spring compressed to 3 inches will have more pressure than the same spring at a free length of 4 inches compressed at the same rate.

If you shorten the spring by cutting out active coils, you are also increasing your spring rate (which means your valve might not open as far due to higher spring reaction forces). By reducing "na" in the formula below, you are decreasing your denominator and increasing your spring rate (k). Not necessarily a bad thing, but something to be aware of depending on the application.

Your preload is simply your spring rate (k) times your compressed distance (make sure your units are compatible).

Here's the math for spring rate (k), for anyone interested (copied from thespringstore.com):

k = Gd^4 ÷ (8D^3 na)

G = E ÷ 2 ( 1 + V)

D = D outer - d

Formula symbols:

d = Wire Diameter
D outer = Outer Diameter
D = Mean Diameter
E = Young's Modulus of Material
G = Shear Modulus of Material
L free = Free Length
k = Spring Rate (Spring Constant)
na = Active Coils
v = Poison's Ratio of Material

[f8tlSHO]

Gotcha, I have never done it so was not aware of the theory/practice. Also, did you see my edit to the last post, about the "Bleeder Valve" method of boost controller? May be worth a shot.
[/quote]


I have never seen it hooked up like this. Maybe this is why I am having so much trouble. Thank u. I wondered what the top port was for. But their is no seal in between the top and the gate. I would imagine I would need one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk