Used Tuners

[MiWiAu]

If you want to play and save money pick up a used SCT and then PM AJPTurbo... Trust me, it's worth every penny you will save :-D ..He should charge more for his tunes.... But hey, his business..

I have had LMS, Torrie, and AJPTurbo tune mine.. if you haven't already decided I HIGHLY recommend AJP...

I couldn't agree more.

I started with Unleashed got 2 revisions on my custom 87 performance tune before I was told we were done. Zero revisions on my 87 Tow tune. I didn't even bother trying the 93 custom tune (which, frankly, is probably where I would have seen more gains/revisions).

Contacted AJP Turbo and couldn't be happier. Wish I would have started with Brad (AJP), but oh well. Brad always kept me informed as to what he was seeing in my logs, what he was changing, what he was looking for, and answered all my noob questions, and he never sent an email shorter than 6 words, LOL.

It seems others on here have had good experiences with Unleashed.

How involved do you want to be in the tuning experience? I wanted to learn as much as possible, data log, analyze data, ask a lot of questions and really feel like I was immersed in the process. You can be as far inserted (or removed) in the process as you want to be with Brad.

If you haven't yet pulled the trigger, I would encourage you to contact possible tuning vendors directly and ask some questions and gauge their responses to see which one fits your needs best.

Welcome to the addiction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BOT_ROCKET]

AJP is tuning my '17 Fusion Sport, and even though I'm probably not the best person to work with while he's trying to tune a car for the first time, he has been patient and actually gives me information about what he's doing. With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret. Brad's livelihood doesn't depend on his tuning income, so he can tell you things that the other tuners wont tell you for fear of losing business. ie: he told me that SCT is missing tables for my car that he needs to do tings right. He said he *could* basically rig it to get the desired effect, but doesn't like doing it that way. Unleashed isn't likely to tell you that and may or may not be "rigging" the Sports that they are tuning. Not that I know enough about it to say the "rigged" way is the wrong way, but that fact is that the owners of those cars will never know how Torrie is getting his results.

Add another one to the AJP recommendations.

[jims2015]

I don't think you have to pay for a second tune for E20 with Torrie.  It is not a major change in the scheme of things.  FoMoCo can confirm tho.

I think if you want two tunes you have to pay for an additional, however if you just want a different tune then he will change it for you....

Atleast from what I have seen...

If you want to play and save money pick up a used SCT and then PM AJPTurbo... Trust me, it's worth every penny you will save :-D ..He should charge more for his tunes.... But hey, his business..

I have had LMS, Torrie, and AJPTurbo tune mine.. if you haven't already decided I HIGHLY recommend AJP...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Does the used SCT X4 have to be a 7015 or will any model work?

[derfdog15]

I don't think you have to pay for a second tune for E20 with Torrie.  It is not a major change in the scheme of things.  FoMoCo can confirm tho.

I think if you want two tunes you have to pay for an additional, however if you just want a different tune then he will change it for you....

Atleast from what I have seen...

If you want to play and save money pick up a used SCT and then PM AJPTurbo... Trust me, it's worth every penny you will save :-D ..He should charge more for his tunes.... But hey, his business..

I have had LMS, Torrie, and AJPTurbo tune mine.. if you haven't already decided I HIGHLY recommend AJP...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Does the used SCT X4 have to be a 7015 or will any model work?

You need the 7015, as far as I know, as that is the one that is ford based, and has the firmware to support ford vehicles/strategies. You could give SCT a call to confirm if you wish as well.

[deejjjaaaa]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

[derfdog15]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

Tune files can be in a protected (locked) format, or an unprotected format. Protected formats allow minimal changes (usually 0) except maybe to a few global parameters that a tuner may leave open based on vehicle (such as gear ratio, tire size, etc.)

Unprotected, would work as you are thinking, you could just open it up with the proper software suite, and mod to your glory, but IDK of any tuners that will send you unprotected/unlocked files without specific request and for good reason.

This is why many people who dyno tune their cars, must return to the same tuner again and again, as they can not have another tuner modify the base file they have. It is also why you start fresh with any tuner, even if you have tunes from someone else prior.

[StealBlueSho]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

The tuned files they send are encrypted so you cannot see all the changes. It's part of the SCT PRP that allows them to do it. LMS does similar but with different tuning software.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[deejjjaaaa]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

The tuned files they send are encrypted so you cannot see all the changes. It's part of the SCT PRP that allows them to do it. LMS does similar but with different tuning software.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

yes, but once the tune is actually stored into your car's ECM then it can be read back by a different device and that's it - it is not encrypted by tuner's secret key when actually stored inside ECM and available for extraction, no ?

[derfdog15]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

The tuned files they send are encrypted so you cannot see all the changes. It's part of the SCT PRP that allows them to do it. LMS does similar but with different tuning software.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

yes, but once the tune is actually stored into your car's ECM then it can be read back by a different device and that's it - it is not encrypted by tuner's secret key when actually stored inside ECM and available for extraction, no ?

Most devices will only pull stock files, if there is a tune, they will merely allow for return to stock, but not save the file. If it was as easy as you say, it would be standard practice.

[deejjjaaaa]

Protected formats

again I as noted (and I might be very wrong) the tables downloaded by one tuner (a device, black box) to ECM are there available to extracted by a different tuner (a device) in a standard format that ECM is using to communicate with the said devices (OBD-whatever), no >?

[deejjjaaaa]

Most devices will only pull stock files, if there is a tune, they will merely allow for return to stock, but not save the file. If it was as easy as you say, it would be standard practice.

yes, but this is how device/firmware developer makes them for an average Joe customer... if I am a tuner who makes my own devices/software I will pull out whatever is in ECM because it is a standard protocol - any tune is as available as a stock tune - same format ... I am not talking about myself - I am talking about people who actually make a living off it... so yes, it is a secret for you and me, but not for competition who actually makes devices and writes software... so no need to decrypt, buy a device/tune from your competition, store the tune in, extract back with your own tools... now that might be illegal under whatever laws, but that is a different story

[derfdog15]

Protected formats

again I as noted (and I might be very wrong) the tables downloaded by one tuner (a device, black box) to ECM are there available to extracted by a different tuner (a device) in a standard format that ECM is using to communicate with the said devices (OBD-whatever), no >?

See my previous post. To my knowledge there is not yet a device that can pull any file off an OBD-II linked ECM. OBD-I does not even have the benefit of using a handheld, they have to go chipped or custom ecu (pre 1995 cars).

An SCT tuner will only pull the stock file, once it has pulled it, it is stored. it will then load any/all custom tunes from the device, but can not pull those tunes back off in the same way as the stock file, it merely overwrites the custom files. To my knowledge it is not possible to use one to pull a custom file back off of an ECU, even if there is no stock file stored on the device.

I have never used the LME device for tuning, but from what I have heard/seen I gather it works in the same manner.

Most devices will only pull stock files, if there is a tune, they will merely allow for return to stock, but not save the file. If it was as easy as you say, it would be standard practice.

yes, but this is how device/firmware developer makes them for an average Joe customer... if I am a tuner who makes my own devices/software I will pull out whatever is in ECM because it is a standard protocol - any tune is as available as a stock tune - same format ... I am not talking about myself - I am talking about people who actually make a living off it... so yes, it is a secret for you and me, but not for competition who actually makes devices and writes software.

Again, see my previous posts, it is not done in industry. All tuners do their changes in different ways, one may command boost by strategy 1 while another uses strategy 4. And due to the protection in the files, even when loaded to an ECU, they are still encrypted/protected. This is why we can not just immediately begin to tune on newly released vehicles/updated ECUs. The stock file itself has its own encryption, which must be cracked by people like SCT before it can be modified in the form of a custom tune.