Stuck Injector Fixed, now rough idle.....opinions?

[amc_matt]

Hi All,

Long time browser, first time poster here. The assistance provided on this website in previous topics has been invaluable when working on my 2013 F-150 or on this latest project.

Just a quick background, I just picked up a 2013 Police Interceptor Sedan, 3.5 Ecoboost. It is a run-out Highway Patrol unit with 129K on it. It was sold at auction with a "dead cylinder, bad engine". Upon closer inspection and speaking to the fleet manager, it turned out to be a stuck open #6 fuel injector causing the issue. Due to the vehicle being over-mileage, they chose not to fix the injector and sent it to auction. They performed a compression test on all cylinders which was within spec prior to auction. From what I have been told, the car started acting up and pouring smoke/fuel out the back. It was parked at the shop and hadn't been run at all.

This is where I come in. When I picked up the car from auction, the battery was dead and was winched onto the trailer. I took apart the intake and replaced the #6 injector. While I was in there, I cleaned the other 5 injectors, drained/replaced the coolant, the oil/filter and installed new Iridium spark plugs, gapped properly. After reassembling everything and putting in a fresh battery, the car started right up. It sounded great and came up to temperature fine. I checked the codes that were in the system, which were:

P006C - Turbo Inlet Pressure Correlation
P0151 - First O2 Sensor Bank 2 Low Voltage
P0306 - Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected
P0316 - Engine Misfire Detected on Startup
P0354 - #4 Ignition Coil D Primary Circuit Fault
P0356 - #6 Ignition Coil F Primary Circuit Fault
P2610 - PCM Internal Engine off Timer
B11D9 - Battery
U3003 - Battery Voltage
U0212 - Steering Wheel Control Module Power Loss
C0051 - Steering Wheel Position Sensor Subfault
U3003 - Battery Voltage

I cleared all the above codes and took the car for a short drive around the block. Warmed it up to temperature, a few mild accelerations; highest speed was approximately 60 mph. The car ran smooth the entire time and I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Whole trip was about 2 miles. No smoke, no odd sounds or smells.

This afternoon after fixing a few other small things on the car, I took it for another drive. This time, I took it for about a 8 mile drive. A few more mild to wide-open accelerations; no cutting out or other problems during acceleration. When I got to a stop light, I noticed that it was "chugging". The idle had suddenly gotten rough and the RPM's were varying. When I got home, I put it in park and noticed that the idle was still rough, sounded like it was "chugging". When standing outside the car, I could smell that rotten egg smell, like from a bad catalytic converter. No C.E.L., but I plugged in and got these codes:

P0300 - Random Misfire Detected
P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected

I went out again this evening and started it up cold; it's still idling rough. No C.E.L. though.

I'm at a loss trying to figure out where to go next. Knowing that the car was driven with a stuck open fuel injector, could it have taken out the oxygen sensors or catalytic converters? I've read about the knock sensor wiring chaffing, possibly fuel injector problems, but has anyone experienced this or know what direction I should go?

Thanks so much.

Matt

[AJP turbo]

Coil packs?

[MiWiAu]

When standing outside the car, I could smell that rotten egg smell, like from a bad catalytic converter.

Hey, Matt. I'm not too familiar with the Taurus, but I just had my XSport towed for a stuck injector (cylinder 2).

I wonder if your cat has failed causing too much back pressure. The stuck open injector can cause the cats to overheat/melt if run for too long in that condition due to unburned fuel making it to the catalyst. Being an Interceptor from auction, who knows the circumstances under which the failure occurred. It may have been driven for a while back to a service depot and permanently damaged the cat.

Does it have a third cat as well? I wonder if pulling the O2 sensor from the downpipe up stream of the cat (leave it plugged in to the harness) to see if the idle smooths out would be a way to diagnose a plugged cat? I wouldn't go out and run it like this as you're likely to melt something in the engine bay. But if the idle smooths out with open bung holes (hehe), then maybe that points to a failed cat. May be a dumb suggestion, but wouldn't be too hard to check. I'd start with the cat on the same bank as your failed injector and the 3rd cat (if you have one).

[MiWiAu]

Coil packs?

Yeah, another easy check would be to swap your cyl 1 & 2 coil packs to different cylinders and see if the misfires follow the coils.

[AJP turbo]

Never pull any of the primary 02 sensors. The car will run worse.

[MiWiAu]

Never pull any of the primary 02 sensors. The car will run worse.

Well, there ya go. It was a dumb suggestion.


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[MiWiAu]

AJP, on cold start, isn't the O2 feedback in open loop until it reaches operating temperature?

If so, couldn't he remove the sensor from the dp, but leave it plugged in to the wiring to avoid faults?

I'm not sure how these newer systems work, but I thought that was the case with the older ones.


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[AJP turbo]

AJP, on cold start, isn't the O2 feedback in open loop until it reaches operating temperature?

If so, couldn't he remove the sensor from the dp, but leave it plugged in to the wiring to avoid faults?

I'm not sure how these newer systems work, but I thought that was the case with the older ones.


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Ooo you know what maybe...I didn't think about cold start...But I think it's always looking at the primary 02's....Open and closed loop don't really mean what it used to...Even at WOT you are in a type of closed loop fuel control now with this controller.

[SHOdded]

EB engines go into closed loop operation within 30 seconds of startup, I think it is necessary because there are quite a bit of emissions in DI engines on cold startup + that's one way they achieve the fuel economy goals.  The only other time noted that the car is in open loop is during decel fuel cutoff.

What plugs did you install?  The fact that there are two misfires on Bank 1 lead me to think possibly valve cover leak, very common on that bank.  But the best way to know is to pull the plugs and check.  If during the process, you find oil in the plug wells, you will have confirmation.  If the plugs are wet with fuel, it is most likely injectors.  Turbos don't seem to be an issue, since they tend to release a plume of blue smoke OR you would have heard grinding sounds.  The HPFP is rarely an issue, but if it is, most likely something broke internally and it might even rattle.

Since the PI already has so much mileage on it, I wouldn't shelve carboning of the backs of the intake valves as an issue.  Also, the rotten egg smell could mean bad fuel in the tank.  Did you fill up the tank, how much and where?  If the gas in the tank was old, it could definitely have compromised any new gas you put in.

Still thinking fuel injectors as primary culprit.  The fact it suddenly let go like that is pretty typical.  Cleaning DI fuel injectors isn't a DIY task, it requires professional equipment.  You mentioned "fixed a few other things", what were they?  Is the battery new?  It should have been replaced at least once by now.  Check for loose wiring and bad grounds.

[sholxgt]

I'm right with SHOdded on this one.

You said iridium plugs.  I strongly suggest sticking with the factory Motorcraft plugs if you didn't.  I'd pull #1 and 2 to check for oil and/or fuel.  If oil, you likely have a leaking valve cover gasket.  I've had that twice.  If they smell like fuel, you likely have stuck injectors.

You also mentioned cleaning the injectors.  There is not a DIY service for these injectors.  I don't think that dealers even attempt cleaning/repair.  They either work or are replaced with new AFAIK.

[Gjkrisa]

Rotten eggs could some one put diesel in the tank? Or something else?

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[amc_matt]

What plugs did you install?  The fact that there are two misfires on Bank 1 lead me to think possibly valve cover leak, very common on that bank.  But the best way to know is to pull the plugs and check.  If during the process, you find oil in the plug wells, you will have confirmation.  If the plugs are wet with fuel, it is most likely injectors.  Turbos don't seem to be an issue, since they tend to release a plume of blue smoke OR you would have heard grinding sounds.  The HPFP is rarely an issue, but if it is, most likely something broke internally and it might even rattle.

Since the PI already has so much mileage on it, I wouldn't shelve carboning of the backs of the intake valves as an issue.  Also, the rotten egg smell could mean bad fuel in the tank.  Did you fill up the tank, how much and where?  If the gas in the tank was old, it could definitely have compromised any new gas you put in.

Still thinking fuel injectors as primary culprit.  The fact it suddenly let go like that is pretty typical.  Cleaning DI fuel injectors isn't a DIY task, it requires professional equipment.  You mentioned "fixed a few other things", what were they?  Is the battery new?  It should have been replaced at least once by now.  Check for loose wiring and bad grounds.

Alright guys, I finally got a little time to work on the Interceptor and try to narrow down what's going on with it. Based on all your suggestions (Thank You!), I checked out the plugs first. SHOdded - I went with the replacement Motorcraft spark plugs, same as the ones I removed. Also, the fuel level is at approximately 1/8 of a tank. I have not added any fuel yet; I was hoping to get it running well before I filled up the tank. The gas shouldn't be old and compromised, it was pulled off the road back in late August, but I suppose it could be a bad batch of fuel? The battery is a Motorcraft that was dead when I got the car. I recharged it and it has been on a battery tender. It seems to start the car just fine.

I started up the car just to confirm the rough idle was still there; it was. No C.E.L., however 2 pending codes:

P3000 - Random Misfire Detected
P0316 - Engine Misfire Detected on Startup

I started with the #1 and #2 plugs since that was where the previous codes were showing a misfire. Absolutely no oil in the plug wells and the plugs were not wet with fuel. The one thing that I did notice is that the plugs are already dirty, considering they've only got about 10 miles on them. I attached a few photos of the #1 and #2 plugs, respectively below.

While the car was running, I noticed that it smells like it is running really rich, like a fuel smell from the exhaust. I asked the fleet manager how far the car was driven after the initial misfire; he said approximately 25 miles back to their maintenance shop. With all this in mind, is it possible that the oxygen sensors are bad causing it to run rich or screwing up the fuel mixture? Or could the catalytic converters have gotten fried from the fuel being run through them when the injector was stuck open?

In reading the above comments, is there a way to check the O2 sensors or Cats, or any suggestions as where to go next?

Thank you for all the assistance thus far.

Matt

Cylinder 1


Cylinder 1


Cylinder 2

[ZSHO]

IMO would install new 02 sensors especially the front AFR wideband 02 sensor,check the PCV system,COP and have the battery checked preferably have a draw test done because a low battery can certainly cause a host of issues to arise and stored in the ECU,especially with the current mileage you have and if original and something to consider and might want to perform a KAM reset video below. Z  ! No longer available

[MiWiAu]

I would dump in a couple cans of FRESH gas, and maybe some HEET. E10 only has a shelf life of 3 months under "ideal conditions". Sitting unused in a near empty gas tank is definitely less than ideal. The ethanol will attract water from the atmosphere and separate from the gasoline. When this happens, the gas will float on top the water/ethanol mixture that has separated out. I've actually been making my own ethanol free fuel for the past two years by mixing in distilled water to separate out the ethanol.

Cylinder 1 definitely looks like it's running rich (relative to Cyl 2). Are you seeing white puffs of smoke coming from the exhaust as well? This is what mine did when I had a stuck injector. If you are smelling fuel from the exhaust, probably best to not drive it to prevent any [further] damages to the catalysts.

[SHOdded]

I think injectors are at the core of the problem here.  But as far as diagnosing with runtime data, it is pretty easy to get thanks to OBD II readers and software like Torque Pro, Forscan, etc that will run on a smartphone/tablet.  You can track the basics like fuel trims, O2 readings, catalytic converter temperatures, etc.  That will tell you how the cats are functioning.  Might as well replace the O2 sensors though, not horribly expensive or difficult to replace (anything relate to bank 1 can be a PITA ...).

I certainly hope all scheduled maintenance was done, it is more rigorous for cop cars than for "everyday" cars.