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Author Topic:  So this arrived today  (Read 24891 times)

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2016, 11:52:41 AM »
AGF, what are you logging with?

Torque always showed -1 and -1.2 but SCT shows -.96 and -1.15 so the scaling is a little different.


Torque always shows -1.00 unless I reset. Livewire TS with LiveLink shows -0.96. So I should expect it to possibly go up to -1.15 at some point?


Hitting the track tonight provided the drizzle backs off so I will have more logs on LiveLink then.
No, my OAR is scaled differently.

My point was that -.96 is the same as -1 in Torque, or in my case -1.15 is the same as -1.2

Offline AnotherGreenFusion

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2016, 11:54:44 AM »


My point was that -.96 is the same as -1 in Torque, or in my case -1.15 is the same as -1.2


Yeah, it seems torque wants to round it up even if you tell it not to and configure 2 decimal precision for the gauge. I suspect it's a bug.
'15 Fusion SE 2.0 AWD
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Offline AnotherGreenFusion

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2016, 03:50:43 PM »
So a heads up to the membership here, there was a post on 2gf asking for where people felt they were at with Aces and I stated I had seen improvement on the Fiesta but not the Fusion but was still testing. Started to get a bunch of back-pedaling by zalvern here and when challenged and asked if he was sponsored he pulled up stakes, deleted his posts on 2gf and made his account private.


I want to note that I did not say the stuff did not work (my posts are still there) but that the jury was still out and I was planning to put the $500 worth of fluid in my car over the next few days. Rather than a response zal up and ran from 2gf and deleted his posts. Honestly this is shaking my faith in a trusted senior member of the EB communities and I am now not sure I even want to put this stuff in my car after this episode. This kind of thing smacks of a scam. I REALLY don't want it to be a scam I want this stuff to be good but the behavior I have seen has really got me worried about putting this stuff in my car. I will be talking to Brian next week though I would not be surprised if he does not talk to me.


http://www.2gfusions.net/showthread.php?tid=5013


starts here:
http://www.2gfusions.net/showthread.php?tid=5013&pid=94490#pid94490


I think its only fair that people know what is going on and ideally to give zal a chance to explain himself as I do trust him, however this has me worried and rightly so IMO.
'15 Fusion SE 2.0 AWD
CP-E Cold Side, Hot Side, αIntake, QKspl DP & RMM | Boomba Can | Cordova TB | Synapse Gen III BOV | Levels FMIC | 160* T-Stat | Steeda STB, Sway | Flatout 5700 | SCT by Unleashed/LMS 93v11

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Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2016, 04:26:16 PM »
My BND fluids are in and I'm completely confident in my decision. I stopped listening to the forum folks and did my own research.

Offline AnotherGreenFusion

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2016, 04:38:24 PM »
My BND fluids are in and I'm completely confident in my decision. I stopped listening to the forum folks and did my own research.


So have I, but zal did turn me on to this stuff and I find it concerning with what has happened and would like to understand. I plan to talk to brian next week. I think my plan right now is going to be to use the AMSOil i have in stock and send out samples of all the BND stuff for lab analysis.


Please if you can post whatever research you have found as pretty much everything is forum people and the BND site with some magazine coverage.


Really curious to see how yours turns out. I do want something better and I like the idea of BND but this is shaking my faith. I think for myself as well as those interested its good to have all the cards on the table.
'15 Fusion SE 2.0 AWD
CP-E Cold Side, Hot Side, αIntake, QKspl DP & RMM | Boomba Can | Cordova TB | Synapse Gen III BOV | Levels FMIC | 160* T-Stat | Steeda STB, Sway | Flatout 5700 | SCT by Unleashed/LMS 93v11

PM me for AMSOil @ Cost

Offline J-Will

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2016, 05:45:22 PM »
Who's zalvern?

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Offline SHOdded

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2016, 05:59:46 PM »
2017 MKZ owner, on this forum
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline sholxgt

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2016, 06:08:02 PM »
Appreciate the heads up.

I think that the key for everyone to remember is that NO fluid is a magic pill.  I've been modifying and racing cars for 25+ years and have seen every claim there is.  All have to be taken with a grain of salt these days because even the worst fluids are pretty darn highly engineered now.  In automotive fluids there are good, better, and best.  Most of today's vehicles are shipped from the factory with fluids that are in the better category.  That only leaves room to step up one notch and that one notch is a very minor step in most cases.

For example, is Amsoil Signature better than Motorcraft full synthetic?  Yes it is, but the difference between those two is NOTHING compared to the difference between any full synthetic and what we bought out of metal cans in the '70's and early '80's.  Looking to improve on any highly engineered modern synthetic fluid would be very difficult and the improvement would be minuscule.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 06:13:34 PM by sholxgt »
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Offline ZSHO

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2016, 06:12:08 PM »
Who's zalvern?

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Here is the entire 11 pages solely based on his exclusive black label and him sponsoring BND products on a leased vehicle,LOL.  Z    http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,6519.150.html


2013 Performance Package SHO| Livernois Custom Methanol Tune|3-Bar Map|Reische-170-Stat|Full Race Tial-10psi BOV in Black|PPE-Gloss Black Hot Pipes|EPP Dual Intake in Gloss Black|PPE Catted DP|Corsa Sport Cat Back Exhaust|H&R Sport-Springs|CFM Performance Billet Valve Cover Breather In Gloss Black|Llumar 20%Ceramic window Tint|MSD Ignition Coils in Black|Extreme Roof Spoiler|Redline Fluids all around|Gearhead Intercooler|First-SHO With Direct Port Alky-VP-M1-100%-Methanol Injection|LMS-Custom-Dyno-Tuned @ 415whp-465wtq| Best Trap Speed of 115.54 mph|

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2016, 06:21:24 PM »
Honestly I read the posts over there and I can't make heads or tails about WTH is going on.

What I do know is I'd appreciate other forum drama not making its way here.

I'm not going to post any of my findings. Why? The same reason I don't post settings in my tune. It's proprietary info and I'm personally not comfortable sharing it. The info isn't impossible to find and regardless of what it is, I'm not a chemist that can state with 100% certainty the effect it has on the fuel...although I do think I have a basic grasp as to what is going on. 

I have no idea why Zalvern flounced and the whole "sponsorship" thing seems odd. I can tell you as far as my dealings with Brian no offer of any kind has been made and if it had, there would be 100% transparency about it.

Personally I wouldn't suggest anyone buying $500 in fluids sight unseen. Maybe buy one, test, and make your decisions from there. Just because I went all in doesn't mean everybody or anybody else should.

As for the 100 octane tune? I'd tread cautiously. Like I've said before octane and "octane effect" are two completely different things. With a given fuel, octane will be be the same between 2 different cars. "Octane effect" however will vary greatly depending on environment, engine design (A prime example is how corn behaves when it is direct injected vs port), base fuel used, etc. Would I delete E85 and try to run ACES only and VPower? Hell no, not on 17 psi and 24 degrees of spark. Corn is a known variable that has proven itself out extremely well. Quite honestly when dealing with an unknown variable, IMHO, a datalogged tune is necessity instead of jumping blind into the deep end with 100 octane out of the chute. We've been able to turn up the power slowly and safely and were able to prove non top tier has far less resistance to knock, even with corn added.

I primarily use ACES for the lubrication it leaves after combustion, especially with my corn addiction. If I get some more octane effect on top of my already potent fuel blend that's just icing on the cake.

As far as the other fluids. so far I have no idea. Life happened and I wasn't able to really test QB oil and I threw already purchased amsoil back in. Next change I'm gonna order more QB oil and start over. Just changed out OE PTU fluid that looked absolutely perfect. Same with the diff. QB coolant and 160 STAT in as well. Will I send everything out for when I change again? Maybe, maybe not. Honestly I've made my decision based upon my research and I'm going to use what i want and enjoy my car while the rest of the internet battles it out.

All I can tell you is that I will be 100% truthful about my experiences with BND products, good, bad, or indifferent. For anybody on the fence that doesn't have discretionary cash to burn on exotic fluids, maybe this isn't the way to go and I still believe Amsoil offers a high quality product and is an excellent alternative to the low end oe and high end exotics.



Offline SHOdded

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2016, 06:48:28 PM »
Testing one by one, be it product or consumer, is VERY tedious indeed.  So I would also emphasize the idea of discretionary, both in terms of time and finance.  I wish FoMoCo had been able to test it all out for us, he would certainly have provided unbiased data.  I don't have an EB vehicle, so I am completely out of the picture on this one.  I just switched over the wife's car from MC SynBlend to Amsoil Sig, so my testing has only just begun (to paraphrase the Carpenters LOL).
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Offline FoMoCoSHO

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2016, 06:49:51 PM »
So did BND delete all their posts, Zalvern, or both?

Hey AGF, I think Brian is going to call you. I actually had to call him today because the tech goofed and accidentally put a small amount of PTU fluid in with my diff fluid. He called me back immediately and let me know it would be fine.  He alluded to a bruhaha over on the fusion forum and I suspected the person he was talking about calling was you.  Then this thread happened, lol.

Offline AnotherGreenFusion

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2016, 11:36:12 PM »
Who's zalvern?

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The guy who was all over this thread but looks like he deleted his posts here too. The thread on 2gf is confusing mainly because zal deleted his comments from the thread. It's this withdrawal that concerns me, I did not think I said anything that bad about the stuff just that the jury was still out. I did become a bit more firm in my last posting but it was mainly because of the insinuation that I was somehow disparaging brian when I am really just looking for firm data.


I understand your position Fomocosho but I do not agree, if your research is available on the public internet it is by no means proprietary and should be shared IMO. I am an old school internet geek from all the way back to the early 90s and Fido net when things were MUCH more academic. If the information is available and you refuse to share it then it makes the validity of any claims suspect and rightly so IMO. If your information comes from protected sources then I do understand but if it is public out there already what is the big deal?


I will be interested to see how things turn out for you.

I am not looking to stir drama but I am interested in truth data and facts, if truth ruffles some feathers I do apologize but I would rather ruffle feathers and out the truth than let people potentially harm their cars.


As I said in the 2gf thread the volumes of AcesIV are so low I could practically pee in my tank 1oz per 6 gallons or pour pure nail polish cleaner into the tank at this ratio and not notice much of a problem. So I am not worried about the Aces harming the system but I really wanted to see it help (and as I say like a broken record I did see it help on the fiesta, just not much of anything on the fusion yet). The issue I am seeing here is this sudden retraction of posts by one of the products biggest adherents and one of the main reasons I looked into this stuff at all. The re-stating of marketing information and then deletion of multiple posts when challenged even a tiny bit smacks of something fishy even if it is not at all. Perception HAS been affected even if that was not the intent.


As stated before, I intend to continue to testing with the last of my AcesIV however with what I have seen today I will not be putting BND products into my crankcase or drivetrain until I have satisfactory information from Blackstone.


Fortunately for me, as evidenced by my modding this past season, I DO have the extra discretionary income and a 2nd car to have the luxury to try out exotic fluids. At one time AMSOil was considered exotic and I tested it for 2 years with blackstone. I just don't understand why the expectation seems to be that one should be all hush hush about what they are seeing unless it is amazing and even then the results should be quoted in highly subjective unquantifiable terms like how much soot is on your tailpipe. We are a community and provide information to help each other out. Testing products is part of that, why should it be any different for BND than it is for Boomba, Steeda, Levels, Livernois, Unleashed, etc etc etc?


Also, no phone calls from Brian yet, it's a holiday weekend so I will hit him up on tuesday.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 11:45:08 PM by AnotherGreenFusion »
'15 Fusion SE 2.0 AWD
CP-E Cold Side, Hot Side, αIntake, QKspl DP & RMM | Boomba Can | Cordova TB | Synapse Gen III BOV | Levels FMIC | 160* T-Stat | Steeda STB, Sway | Flatout 5700 | SCT by Unleashed/LMS 93v11

PM me for AMSOil @ Cost

Offline sholxgt

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2016, 11:49:43 PM »
If BND reaches out to you, the first thing I would ask is what he is using for base fluids for each of his products.  NO small shop can formulate base fluids.  All they are able to do is buy a base and then create their own additive package.

I have not purchased or tested any BND fluids.  This is not because of a lack of funds, but a lack of interest due to the lack of information available about their product.

Knowing the base fluid he starts with would perhaps increase my interest in their product.  As it stands right now, I would guess that the base for ACES is from Lucas and the base for their motor oil is probably something less than Amsoil Signature.  Perhaps also from Lucas.  That's just a crazy guess.  Regardless, anyone going the BND route is rolling the dice regarding what they are actually paying for.

First thing I check before purchasing any high end automotive fluid is the MSDS sheets.  I do not see those available for BND products.  A release of those would definitely ease my mind regarding the potential of this being snake oil.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 11:51:59 PM by sholxgt »
Current - 2019 F150 Platinum FX4 3.5 EB
Formerly -2013 MKS Ecoboost Premium
PPE Catted DP's, 170 Reische TS, K&N Drop In, AJP Tune only at track - 12.87@106

Offline SHOdded

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Re: So this arrived today
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2016, 12:01:01 AM »
Objective data :D. Keep fighting the good fight!
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

 

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