any GM gurus?

[cseverens]

I am taking my nephew to look at a pair of 2004 Pontiac Grand Ams tomorrow. Both are SE models. 1 is a 3.4L v6 with 155k miles for $1800, and the other is a 2.4L 4cyl with 113k miles for $1300. I am a Ford guy, and have no insight on either powertrain. no luck with the google either! thanks in advance.

[SHOdded]

I usually look up edmunds.com first for reviews, then the usual car mags.  Sounds like the powertrains are Lumina and Cavalier heritage possibly.

[Rockstar04]

I have a little experience with the 3.4. I'd look for oil leaking around the lower intake manifold. I've had to do LIM gaskets on my aunt's Grand Am twice now (seems like a pretty common issue just like the GM 3800 from my research).

[SHOdded]

http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/grand-am/2004/st-100307377/consumer-reviews/
http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/grand-am/2004/st-100307373/consumer-reviews/

[AnotherGreenFusion]

This is solid in my wheelhouse. Before going for the blue oval I was a huge Chevy fan and worked primarily on modding GM W-Body cars (GrandPrix, Impala, Monte Carlo etc). The GrandAM shares an engine/drivetrain options with the lower model GrandPrix.


The 3.4 AKA the 3400 is a pushrod 60*v6 engine that is internally balanced with high compression (for the day) non-interference engine (timing chain style) with forged internals, aluminum heads and a cast aluminium intake (it think it was still cast in '04) .


The 3400 is a VERY solid engine and will take mass amounts of punishment and will refuse to die (you can even turbo them with stock compression, the issue is fuel and head gasket; not the engine itself). There is even a CSC kit for the 3400 ;-)


The biggest issue is the transmission which I think is either the 4t40-E or the 4t45-E. Good units that will run for 100k+ when taken care of but will flake when beat hard. Make sure the shifts are smooth and crisp. The good news is even if the trans fails these are SO common you can get a rebuild cheap. If you go the custom re-build route about 1/3 to 1/2 of the parts will swap with more durable volvo parts thanks to the transmission being from Allison.


IMO the 2.4 4cyl (that is an interference engine with a belt instead of a timing chain IIRC) is junk. It does not do much better gas mileage wise when compared to the 3.4 and tends to have all kinds of little issues like intake gasket failures. It is a much newer engine from GM so you know how that goes. The 3400 in contrast was first used in the late 80s as a 2.8L (or was it a 1.8?) MPFI v6 which evolved over 15+ years to the 3.4 that is in that '04 so many of the main problems were solved long ago (in the mid 90's actually).


The other thing I would look at are the motor mounts, if they have not been replaced you will likely want to put all new ones in, stock only lasts about 5-8 years in best case conditions before the urethane breaks down and the mount gets SUPER soft.


Feel free to ask anything specific, I know entirely too much about the GAs and GPs.

[cseverens]

thanks. the 4 cylinder one already sold. guess I lucked out! he is interested in a G6 as well. I believe it is a 3.5L.

[AnotherGreenFusion]

thanks. the 4 cylinder one already sold. guess I lucked out! he is interested in a G6 as well. I believe it is a 3.5L.

The 3.5 is from the same line as the 3400 and is dubbed the 3500. It is a bigger bore with an updated block to accommodate it. It replaced the 3400 as they emptied their stocks. While both are great and VERY similar so much so they can swap parts between each other the 3500 has a few design updates and is overall a better engine.


IIRC 3400 debuted in '97/'98 to replace the 3100 and the 3500 came out in '00/'01 to start replacing the 3400.


The 60*v6 design is ultimately what most V6 engines are today and it is what GM based their global v6 platform on.

[cseverens]

thanks

[r1crusher]

I have family members with GA's of the 2003 and 2004 vintages.  All of them are well north of 120k miles and my wifes old trusty GA is closing in on 230k miles....yes....230k miles.

Now...all three cars have had the usual issues related to the 3.4l motor/trans.  One had a trans replaced around the 90k mile mark.  One has had the damn rocker arm studs fixed....TWICE (this is something well known on these motors).  And my wife's car has only had the lower intake gasket setup updated due to a small water leak (not counting normal things like brakes, batteries, etc.).

For the most part, if it's been maintained well they should run until the body falls apart and continue with minor fixes along the way.

[SHOdded]

http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/throttle-back-thursday-cruising-dale-earnhardt-our-favorite-chevy-salesman

[AnotherGreenFusion]

Ahhh the old 3.4 DOHC, not to be confused with the 3400 (which came out years later and is also a 3.4 but a pushrod) but an awesome engine in its day. An interference belt driven v6 with 24 valves in the early-mid 90s! It was quick and fuel efficient but expensive to produce and hard to service (replacing the alternator required dropping the cradle).


The old Lumina Z34s (and 95-97 monte carlo Z34s with the same engine) are collectors items in some circles but the drive train is really a mechanics only kind of rig. You would not want to own one unless you don't mind wrenching yourself as no shop will want to touch it nor would they treat it correctly. Kept up with though, it is a great engine that was ahead of its time much like the old Turbo 3.8 GNX.


The DOHC has a myth that surrounded it in the tuner community. Word was that the original design made 275-300hp NA and was dialed back by GM as they did not have an adequate transmission at the time to support the engine. GM has bucked this claim many times. Even then the power it did make was enough to tear up the 4t60 and 4t60-e they were originally mated to. IIRC you could also get your hands on a manual mated to a Getrag 283 which was just amazing. Only a few were ever made, though quite a few folks swapped in a manual and wired up a clutch as the computers of the day were very easy to work with in comparison to modern setups.


It's really funny to hear DE be refereed to as a car salesman these days, I completely forgot about that!


I loved the old Lumina esp the triple black:

[cseverens]

we passed on the grand am's after seeing them. both were pretty rough. we looked at a 3.5l g6, and passed on that as well, as it had issues, but, he decided he does want a g6, so that makes it much easier for me. only have to focus on one type of car!

[mval]

had a '93 grand am gt back in the day, had the 3 liter engine was fine but they went to the mopar school of engineering, make it look sexy & sound good which it did with the dual/dual & people will forget about shoddy interior. Only thing nice on inside was the guages that lite up red at night. long since gone to the crusher i'm sure although keep in the family for around 90k miles.

[SHOdded]

Even the early CTS-V's interiors weren't great shakes, so can't blame Poor Pontiac LOL!