New something in the works

[SHOnUup]

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[glock-coma]

[AJP turbo]

It's like man jewlry lol!

[SHOnUup]

Thoughts?

It's suppose to have a 7th nozzle also to help with the sensor on intake noticing the cooling effects.

Some are concerned it will not get the full benefit of cooling the intake with where the meth is being injected right on top of the valves, and a flooding issue possibly?

Would love to hear from the experts that are WAY more knowledgeable than I...thx

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[J-Will]

who's making this? I am interested.

Direct port setups are primarily to boost octane.  Finer mist nozzles must be used, however much less meth is required.

Most setups will then put a nozzle further away (for us think just after the CAC) to allow for cooling.  This can be sprayed a bit heavier, because there is more pipe travel and more time to cool than a single or dual nozzle closer to the TB.

[AJP turbo]

Thoughts?

It's suppose to have a 7th nozzle also to help with the sensor on intake noticing the cooling effects.

Some are concerned it will not get the full benefit of cooling the intake with where the meth is being injected right on top of the valves, and a flooding issue possibly?

Would love to hear from the experts that are WAY more knowledgeable than I...thx

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I had a few thoughts but didn't want to rain on the parade because it is a sweet looking piece. You will still get cooling effects regardless of whether or not the IAT2 sensor sees the true temp....The benefit of acutally having the IAT2(MAP sensor) see the lower temp is that the spark compensations are based on the MAP sensor

So at 100 degree temp you are running straight commanded spark and you are pumping meth right into the runner and the true intake air 2 temp is 70 degrees the compensation spark adders might actually call for another 2 degrees spark but you won't get it because the MAP won't see it

Or worse yet say your iat2 is 150 ecu will be commaned to pull a few degrees of spark according to the compensations when in fact your real temp may be 110 requiring hardly any retard at all

It's not a bad thing for safety though because you should never see knock that way....You will be pulling more spark than you need to or not adding what you need to....In both cases it will lead to conservative spark...Worst case is less performance but not more danger.

Does injecting it later and close to the chamber leave less time for the meth to mix and atomize? I don't know just asking....Like when you inject it at the throttle body or pre TB does the meth mix better and distribute better?

Like if you have 6 meth injectors hopefully they are high quality and for a given pulsewidth they deliver the same amount of meth....If one isn't then obviously that wouldn't be good...But if one cylinder knocks the all cylinders will have spark pulled

[SHOnUup]

Appreciate the feedback...I'm also hearing that tuning for this would be near impossible, and require a seperate controller?

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[SHOnUup]

Not my project BTW...just something I figured would be a good topic to discuss and maybe improve on?

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[sholxgt]

Looks really well done!

Keep in mind that the next comment comes from an old school nitrous junky...

If I had a spare intake drilled for direct port, it would be for nitrous and not meth. 

[J-Will]

Thoughts?

It's suppose to have a 7th nozzle also to help with the sensor on intake noticing the cooling effects.

Some are concerned it will not get the full benefit of cooling the intake with where the meth is being injected right on top of the valves, and a flooding issue possibly?

Would love to hear from the experts that are WAY more knowledgeable than I...thx

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I had a few thoughts but didn't want to rain on the parade because it is a sweet looking piece. You will still get cooling effects regardless of whether or not the IAT2 sensor sees the true temp....The benefit of acutally having the IAT2(MAP sensor) see the lower temp is that the spark compensations are based on the MAP sensor

So at 100 degree temp you are running straight commanded spark and you are pumping meth right into the runner and the true intake air 2 temp is 70 degrees the compensation spark adders might actually call for another 2 degrees spark but you won't get it because the MAP won't see it

Or worse yet say your iat2 is 150 ecu will be commaned to pull a few degrees of spark according to the compensations when in fact your real temp may be 110 requiring hardly any retard at all

It's not a bad thing for safety though because you should never see knock that way....You will be pulling more spark than you need to or not adding what you need to....In both cases it will lead to conservative spark...Worst case is less performance but not more danger.

Does injecting it later and close to the chamber leave less time for the meth to mix and atomize? I don't know just asking....Like when you inject it at the throttle body or pre TB does the meth mix better and distribute better?

Like if you have 6 meth injectors hopefully they are high quality and for a given pulsewidth they deliver the same amount of meth....If one isn't then obviously that wouldn't be good...But if one cylinder knocks the all cylinders will have spark pulled

this is done for octane (increase timing, reduce knock, etc).  the nozzles need to mist much less product.  IAT sensors dont need to see it.  the 7th is for cooling, which IAT sensors would need to see.

[J-Will]

Appreciate the feedback...I'm also hearing that tuning for this would be near impossible, and require a seperate controller?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

direct port is generally the best (but most expensive) method.
I dont see why it would be impossible to tune for.  meth kits come with a controller, and combined with a tune this should be similar to the way meth is currently tuned for.  Again, the direct port portion is done for octane boost, spraying as little product in as fine of a mist as you can get. 
The 7th nozzle is placed further away from the TB and used for cooling.

[J-Will]

Not my project BTW...just something I figured would be a good topic to discuss and maybe improve on?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Is this going to be sold to the public, or is this a one-off.

[AJP turbo]

Thoughts?

It's suppose to have a 7th nozzle also to help with the sensor on intake noticing the cooling effects.

Some are concerned it will not get the full benefit of cooling the intake with where the meth is being injected right on top of the valves, and a flooding issue possibly?

Would love to hear from the experts that are WAY more knowledgeable than I...thx

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I had a few thoughts but didn't want to rain on the parade because it is a sweet looking piece. You will still get cooling effects regardless of whether or not the IAT2 sensor sees the true temp....The benefit of acutally having the IAT2(MAP sensor) see the lower temp is that the spark compensations are based on the MAP sensor

So at 100 degree temp you are running straight commanded spark and you are pumping meth right into the runner and the true intake air 2 temp is 70 degrees the compensation spark adders might actually call for another 2 degrees spark but you won't get it because the MAP won't see it

Or worse yet say your iat2 is 150 ecu will be commaned to pull a few degrees of spark according to the compensations when in fact your real temp may be 110 requiring hardly any retard at all

It's not a bad thing for safety though because you should never see knock that way....You will be pulling more spark than you need to or not adding what you need to....In both cases it will lead to conservative spark...Worst case is less performance but not more danger.

Does injecting it later and close to the chamber leave less time for the meth to mix and atomize? I don't know just asking....Like when you inject it at the throttle body or pre TB does the meth mix better and distribute better?

Like if you have 6 meth injectors hopefully they are high quality and for a given pulsewidth they deliver the same amount of meth....If one isn't then obviously that wouldn't be good...But if one cylinder knocks the all cylinders will have spark pulled

this is done for octane (increase timing, reduce knock, etc).  the nozzles need to mist much less product.  IAT sensors dont need to see it.  the 7th is for cooling, which IAT sensors would need to see.

I understand how it works JWILL.

If the IAT2 sensor doesn't see it then you will not get the benefit of the increased timing. If you only use the ported injected nozzles then the IAT2 wont see it, you won't knock most likely because you won't be getting any additional advance because the ECU won't command any more timing because it won't see the cooler temps. So in essence, you will be more spark retard based on temp but really you won't be as hot as what the IAT2 sees.

If you have the 7th nozzle pre IAT2 then yes you will cool down the charge temp as the IAT2 sees it but if that 7th nozzle is the only thing cooling the aircharge it will only be 1/7 of the total meth spray so I don't know how much it will cool down the charge.

You could tune the spark curve while looking at the knock sensor and advance without the use of IAT2 compensations but then if your meth amount sprayed ever falls off then you are running an amount of spark based on being meth sprayed...Meth isn't there then you will be over advanced and get to see the knock sensor get really active....and hopefully there is enough retard allowed by the sensor to stop the knock

If the knock sensor is allowed to pull 7.5 degrees but you were over advanced my 8 degrees because of the chilly meth then you will be relying on the knock sensor to pull max spark....If you need to pull 10 degrees you won't be able to.....Hopefully fireworks don't happen

[J-Will]

I see what you are saying

Is is possible to allow for more timing retard in the tune?  In your example the engine cannot pull 10 degrees due to the tune advancing the timing so much.  My thought would be that if you tune to increase timing by x, then you should be able to retard timing by x, bringing you back to a 'stock' parameter.

While I see your point, the 7th nozzle would be more than 1/7 of total meth amount (though I wouldnt pretend to estimate what amount).  That nozzle could be larger as it is placed further away and has more time to create finer particles.

[SHOnUup]

This is supposed to be available to all...one for the 2.3, for the F150, and the transverse pictured above.

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