Livernois Tune Madness on "Winter Blend"

black99lightning · January 28, 2016, 10:34:40 AM

Quote from: SHOdded on January 28, 2016, 07:23:00 AM
Guys, it's important to try and stay civil, please! The OP stated his opinion that the issue is occurring with the Livernois tune, maybe it is with other tuners also. We don't know. Ask them and their views on the matter directly.

Why is better fuel more important to the 13+? The question is, I think, a chicken-and-egg question. Ok, so we "fix" the issue with summer fuel. But is that a "band-aid" (albeit working) solution? Is there a flaw in the 13 PCM programming, or are the sensors being used with different parameters (tighter), or ...? The reason it is important to make the distinction is that, for example, in days of yore, engines designed to run on 87 would start to ping or knock. The common DIY solution was to use a higher-grade gasoline (89, 91, 93, etc), whatever it took to stop that ping/knock. Rather than actually fix the problem, which might be dirty carb/FI, or valves or timing belt etc. One simple test is for the owner to run a known good fuel in the wintertime as many have suggested, to see if the problem disappears. Maybe a VP/racing fuel even. We can all chip in and help fund this type of test. Stock tune vs aftermaket tune. We still won't directly know how the PCM is handling the data flow, though.

The tunes are hard to fault, but no vendor is infallible, "learning" experiences are inevitable. Asking questions, pushing boundaries is what we are all here for. Sometimes we will find an answer, sometimes we won't. And that's OK.

I've been more than pleased with Livernois and their tuning and most importantly their helpfulness. I have no doubt that the revision I received is not compatible with the winter fuels. They graciously have sent me stage 3 tuning and stage 4. During winter I'll keep stage 3, when warmer weather returns I'll install stage 4.

14SHOCAR · January 28, 2016, 10:59:33 AM

Quote from: ZSHO on January 26, 2016, 09:53:03 PM
I think Brenton is to busy focusing on his new anticipated video in the works exclusively on Tangents Daily so do subscribe,Btw did you make a video on the popping madness from hell part 3,at the very end its all about the ratings.lol. Z

LOL THAT is hilarious. Sorry guys got busy at work and didn't get a chance to check back in.

To answer everyone else's questions --- there are a lot but I'll do my best:

Livernois - I am no longer blending the gas. It was a temporary experiment that produced mixed results. I'm now at a point where I'm confident I have 100% 93 octane gas (winter blend).

BPD- I haven't been able to get under my car yet to check it out. If its really that easy, that is definitely a DYI thing. Thank you for the info.

Everyone else -- please STOP BLAMING Livernois for this. I am not SLAMMING Livernois, nor would I ever do that on my video blog. I would like them to datalog this issue to see what is happening. The popping is absolutely out the exhaust / back end. I'm going to get a video of my car popping inside and outside the car. The car when its popping will pull timing. I'll be loading the 91 3bar tonight as well to see if there are any improvements.

AJP turbo · January 28, 2016, 11:07:02 AM

Why do you think it will be pilling timing when popping?....it could be anything....who cares about a video..datalogs are great...not being a smart ass...but data is better...how will you data log and what will you view it with?

SHOdded · January 28, 2016, 11:08:21 AM

And if you have unburnt fuel, you will get popping out the exhaust (so to speak

) as it ignites. Could be plugs, could be injectors. At least plugs are relatively easy to check.

Hey AJ. The video could be useful, esp if we see this:
http://youtu.be/vEashMzvifg?t=1m4s

Livernois Motorsports · January 28, 2016, 11:23:11 AM

^AWESOMENESS^

FoMoCoSHO · January 28, 2016, 11:23:33 AM

Quote from: 14SHOCAR on January 28, 2016, 10:59:33 AM
Quote from: ZSHO on January 26, 2016, 09:53:03 PM
I think Brenton is to busy focusing on his new anticipated video in the works exclusively on Tangents Daily so do subscribe,Btw did you make a video on the popping madness from hell part 3,at the very end its all about the ratings.lol. Z

LOL THAT is hilarious. Sorry guys got busy at work and didn't get a chance to check back in.

To answer everyone else's questions --- there are a lot but I'll do my best:

Livernois - I am no longer blending the gas. It was a temporary experiment that produced mixed results. I'm now at a point where I'm confident I have 100% 93 octane gas (winter blend).

BPD- I haven't been able to get under my car yet to check it out. If its really that easy, that is definitely a DYI thing. Thank you for the info.

Everyone else -- please STOP BLAMING Livernois for this. I am not SLAMMING Livernois, nor would I ever do that on my video blog. I would like them to datalog this issue to see what is happening. The popping is absolutely out the exhaust / back end. I'm going to get a video of my car popping inside and outside the car. The car when its popping will pull timing. I'll be loading the 91 3bar tonight as well to see if there are any improvements.

Man, there is a crapload of E0 in WI!

http://www.buyrealgas.com/Wisconsin.html

All things being equal you should be less fuel challenged than the E10 guys which I'd say is most folks.

14SHOCAR · January 28, 2016, 11:24:22 AM

Quote from: ajpturbo on January 28, 2016, 11:07:02 AM
Why do you think it will be pilling timing when popping?....it could be anything....who cares about a video..datalogs are great...not being a smart ass...but data is better...how will you data log and what will you view it with?

Here is my point. Why should I data log for a company who created my tune? Further, why should I be buying ANOTHER device to data log for them?

They should work with me on the data logging, especially since I bought the 3 bar, the plugs, and the tuner from them.

I'll try the factory intake again to see if this helps as well after I try out the 91 tune.

FoMoCoSHO · January 28, 2016, 11:27:33 AM

Only a 1.7% difference in energy between winter and summer blends...

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2013/06/what-is-the-difference-between-summer-and-winter-blend-gasoline/

AJP turbo · January 28, 2016, 11:37:12 AM

Map based fuel logic...i wouldnt waste time with the intake...if it was me id look at data then change parts...you changing the intake is like a parts changing mechanic that didnt properly diagnose a problem..just change stuff til its fixed....there is a better way

14SHOCAR · January 28, 2016, 11:39:48 AM

Quote from: ajpturbo on January 28, 2016, 11:37:12 AM
Map based fuel logic...i wouldnt waste time with the intake...if it was me id look at data then change parts...you changing the intake is like a parts changing mechanic that didnt properly diagnose a problem..just change stuff til its fixed....there is a better way

I agree. Data logging.

BlackJac · January 28, 2016, 11:47:30 AM

LMS has been very helpful and has always gotten back to me right away when I need them to. I don't want anyone to think I'm bashing them by posting the issues I've had. Just posted here since it may be fuel related and the topic was brought up, and thought it might generate other helpful ideas for me to look into.

After running 93 v4, I'm getting time with 91 v4, then I'll switch to 93 v3, so I can get a good feel of how it's running with each tune. If the issue doesn't clear up, I'll order some plugs and see if that helps.

14SHOCAR · January 28, 2016, 11:48:34 AM

I have less than 15k on these plugs. I shouldn't be having these issues....

SHOdded · January 28, 2016, 11:50:42 AM

Although, to support FoMoCo's idea, changing the intake may be a valid test. For whatever reason, the MDesigns intake seems to create less soot at the exhaust tip. Though overall performance is relatively unaffected, something DOES change with the type of intake you have on the vehicle. This obviously does not supplant datalogging, but it IS such an easy test to perform (compared to changing fuels even), why not do it (if you have the time)?

Tunes eat plugs for breakfast, lunch, dinner, brunch, lundin, bedtime snacks, boudoir snacks, you name it. 15K is not at all an unusual interval in this case. You are stressing components a lot with a tune, and you need them to perform optimally. Pay to play.

Livernois Motorsports · January 28, 2016, 11:58:42 AM

Quote from: 14SHOCAR on January 28, 2016, 11:24:22 AM
Here is my point. Why should I data log for a company who created my tune? Further, why should I be buying ANOTHER device to data log for them?

They should work with me on the data logging, especially since I bought the 3 bar, the plugs, and the tuner from them.

I'll try the factory intake again to see if this helps as well after I try out the 91 tune.

Logging is something that you would HAVE to do with a less experienced tuner regardless. We have happily provided you with days worth of phone and email support. What you decide to do with our advice and support is up to you. You routinely try to find a better mousetrap by expounding upon something that we have already spent tons of resources on producing. The likelihood of success in a situation like that is slight. If you decide to disregard our advice how are we culpable?

We have already spotted the issues, and suggested fixes. You do not have to work with us on logging at all if you do not want to. We have already explained the suspected issues, and solution for said problem.

Livernois Motorsports · January 28, 2016, 12:01:17 PM

Quote from: FoMoCoSHO on January 28, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
Only a 1.7% difference in energy between winter and summer blends...

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2013/06/what-is-the-difference-between-summer-and-winter-blend-gasoline/

Great find! I would hope that this article would dispel the myth of there not being a difference in the 2 qualities of fuel. The difference in potential kinetic energy does not display the difference in properties nor reaction characteristics.