Livernois Tune Madness on "Winter Blend"

[Livernois Motorsports]

....there is a better way

There is, use the recommended fueling and tuning combo.

[Livernois Motorsports]

Although, to support FoMoCo's idea, changing the intake may be a valid test.  For whatever reason, the MDesigns intake seems to create less soot at the exhaust tip.  Though overall performance is relatively unaffected, something DOES change with the type of intake you have on the vehicle.  This obviously does not supplant datalogging, but it IS such an easy test to perform (compared to changing fuels even), why not do it (if you have the time)?

Tunes eat plugs for breakfast, lunch, dinner, brunch, lundin, bedtime snacks, boudoir snacks, you name it.  15K is not at all an unusual interval in this case.  You are stressing components a lot with a tune, and you need them to perform optimally.  Pay to play.

That again is something that we recommended early on, but that advice has fallen upon deaf ears.

[14SHOCAR]

Logging is something that you would HAVE to do with a less experienced tuner regardless. We have happily provided you with days worth of phone and email support. What you decide to do with our advice and support is up to you. You routinely try to find a better mousetrap by expounding upon something that we have already spent tons of resources on producing. The likelihood of success in a situation like that is slight. If you decide to disregard our advice how are we culpable?

We have already spotted the issues, and suggested fixes. You do not have to work with us on logging at all if you do not want to. We have already explained the suspected issues, and solution for said problem.

When these suggestions don't work... I'll be sure to create a video with snapshots of these conversations. Mostly deplorable response right here. I told you I am going to TRY what you are suggesting, However the POPPING is a symptom to "something". That "SOMETHING" can be found with data logging. I don't want a damn Band-Aid, I want a fix to the problem and know WHY its happening.

If I worked with another vendor, I would already have been data logging. Don't give me crap about "not choosing" to do fixes with your organization. I believe I've been patient enough given my history of problems with a bad tuner, popping with the downpipes, Popping with the winter gas, Popping with the summer gas. If you recall, one of my videos was from summer with the popping noise on SUMMER 93 octane gas..

[14SHOCAR]

That again is something that we recommended early on, but that advice has fallen upon deaf ears.

If you really want to go there, I also had the SAME popping problem with the downpipes AND when I took the downpipes off with less than 5k on the plugs. I'm not buying into your deflection.

[AJP turbo]

Only a 1.7% difference in energy between winter and summer blends...

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2013/06/what-is-the-difference-between-summer-and-winter-blend-gasoline/

Great find! I would hope that this article would dispel the myth of there not being a difference in the 2 qualities of fuel. The difference in potential kinetic energy does not display the difference in properties nor reaction characteristics.

You take it the wrong way...it doesnt dispel the myth of there NOT being a difference but rather numerically difines how similar the fuels are to eachother.   

[AJP turbo]

....there is a better way

There is, use the recommended fueling and tuning combo.

That is something i agree with

[Livernois Motorsports]

That again is something that we recommended early on, but that advice has fallen upon deaf ears.

If you really want to go there, I also had the SAME popping problem with the downpipes AND when I took the downpipes off with less than 5k on the plugs. I'm not buying into your deflection.

It is not deflection. You regularly bring up threads like this. You have made countless ill advised mods to several proven parts, and have documented them. We cannot help if you do things that we do not recommend doing like adding E85, cutting off random exhaust sections or not adhering to the suggested life of parts.

[14SHOCAR]

It is not deflection. You regularly bring up threads like this. You have made countless ill advised mods to several proven parts, and have documented them. We cannot help if you do things that we do not recommend doing like adding E85, cutting off random exhaust sections or not adhering to the suggested life of parts.

Now it's clear you have no clue what you're talking about. When did I EVER cut my exhaust? Did I actually do that because the last time I checked I still have my factory DPs and Corsa Exhaust.

My current build LIVERNOIS PROVIDED:
1. LMS Tuner
2. LMS Pre-Gapped Plugs
3. LMS 3-Bar
4. LMS t-stat


The only mods I have that are not livernois are:
1. K&N CAI Intake
2. Corsa Cat Back Exhaust.
3. A Full tank of 93 octane gas with NO e85 blend. In fact, I retuned since the last time I used e85 for the fuel curves.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

From what I understand, Unleashed tunes don't have this winter blend problem.

[Livernois Motorsports]

We recommend using V8 during the winter months.
The plugs as we all agree are at the end of their lifespan.
This is not an issue.
Winter blend.

We are not trying to fight with you, but it seems like you are trying to not follow what we prescribe for the sake of viewership. We are not in the thread to fight with you. We have offered up a fix. A fix that everyone seems to agree with. What you decide to do with that information is up to you.

[SHOnUup]

Ok...have you checked your plugs?

If not, why would you even be posting? If you haven't crawled under your ride to look at anything, how in the world can you point to anything?

Sounds like it's actually a ploy to accuse, instead of investigate?

If the fuel has a 1.7% difference in energy, what does that change to in a direct injected application....as corn gets an upgrade when directly injected?

And are we still running the "hot" tune?

This is getting pretty rhetorical IMO....

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[JMR76]

I have also recently experienced the same symptoms (popping noises).  They only happened under full Acceleration right before the shift change or during the shift at high rpm. 

Although this has happened with traction control completely off, it is worse when traction control is on.  The traction control light will start flashing and the popping will sound.  It will only be one pop if the transmission shifts, but if the transmission doesn't, it gets hung up on the rev limiter and continues to pop until I let off the gas.

As far as the black smoke.  I saw this once when on the highway and getting on it.  It downshifted, hesitated and puffed a little black smoke.

All these symptoms have only happened in the winter running the 3bar V8 tune.

I have no codes showing.  I found no oil leaks and there are no other hesitations besides what I described.

My plugs are gapped at .030.  To me it originally felt like the traction control kicking in.  It kind of feels and sounds like when I had a bad coil on another vehicle, except I don't get the same low rpm lugging symptoms.

My Second set of plugs probably have 20k miles on them so I'm changing them this week anyway. Other then that, I can control the symptoms by the way I accelerate and get by until summer blend fuel comes back.

2013 SHO PP

[Livernois Motorsports]

I log around 30 PID's when I log. I don't see how you can do that without SCT. And to be thorough when trying to diagnose something I would log as much as possible.

I would be interested in STFT's, measured AFR,  Actual throttle angle, Fuel pressure at the rail, Misfire count, Knock senor, TIP and MAP pressure, in addition to normal things like RPM, Coolant temp, gear, IAT's, vehicle speed and spark and cam timing intake actul..

Popping can't be good and means something. I doubt the higer E would be a problem but the more you have the more your stft's and ltft's would read.

AJPTURBO

Sorry for the late response on this post

This shows your inexperience with engines an fuel. E85 will most definitely cause popping with these cars (IF OUT OF FUEL). The car is on the verge of being out of fuel pressure and lean on e10 gasoline. Please don't advise people with inaccurate advice. This kind of stuff causes major problems with the fuel system and engine. I wish people would advise the correct information. The winter is here an temperatures are colder which results in substantially more fuel required (especially with E85).

You seem to know very little about datalogging, a pid is no where near the data you need to be looking at with "said" companies data log. It is for diagnostic data for repair shops. Not for development.

Can we confirm the actual fuel in the car?

We don't have people complaining with these cars about drivability issues since initial release in 2013. I think we are on to something with the fuel. We are committed to finding the problem out. If we need to we will make a trip to the customer an find out the problem. This is a car problem not a tuning problem.

We stand behind our customers

LME

Please educate the community with "good information" not opinion.

[SHOdded]

So the longterm solution for the fuel problem could be to have a fuel system upgrade?  Which components in particular would you recommend:  the LPFP, HPFP, injectors, etc.?

[ZSHO]

Definitely need to change your spark plugs and make sure all plugs are torqued properly.think its 14lbs of torque and while your there check to see if any of the (COP)Coil on plugs(boots)are ripped or torn,especially after reading this article. http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=5090

[bamsho]

All this debate comes down to is fueling.  Plain and simple.  The weakest link has and always will be the DI pump.  In stock trim, yes the ECU can compensate for different blends of fuel, but since we tuned these cars that window shrinks a lot.  So until someone finally steps up and R&D's a bigger DI pump, this debate will go on.  I would be the first one to spend $800 on a bigger DI pump in a heart beat.  Why do you think the 2nd gen 3.5 EB had dual fuel set up on the GT and Raptor? Just think about it.  Yes you can data log, but all your doing to tuning for the crap fuel.