Upgrade paths? I'm about to start

Scott4957 · November 09, 2015, 02:58:19 PM

Okay, I have done a bunch of reading, compared notes to what I know coming from the Mazda DISI world. We had some pretty well defined upgrade paths so it was a no brainer on what to buy for a set goal, the hardest part was keeping from buying go fast parts that didn't really make you go any faster. Anyways the general consensus seems to be that CAI's/Short RAM's do not do much over a quality drop in filter but may be needed on the top end for better flow once you reach a particular point "400ish hp for example?". It seems that money best spent in the beginning would be on the tune/tuner "obviously" DP's, Tstat, and that is about it? Next you have the "splash of E85" or some Meth. Though I went the E85 route with the Mazda, the fuel system had enough head room to handle this and that does not appear to be the case with the 3.5 Ecoboost. I am leaning towards Meth here as my MPG's suffered in the Mazda and I am just not on it that much. Considering the MPG difference and the cost of twin in tank pumps the Meth is looking like the best option. I'm not looking to build a dyno queen so i'm not looking for a "number" I like to build on a budget and take pride not only in the outcome, but the level of sleeperness "yes I made that word up

" and the bang for the buck. I had only $700 in my Mazda and it was putting down about 100whp and torque over stock. I must thank a good friend in the Mazda community for doing the tuning at no cost. I think I will go the SCT 4x route for tuning as I want data logging. Other than the required maintenance am I missing anything? As much as I love the sucking and blowing

I will avoid a CAI and VTA if its not going to put up a better number, the intake money can be spent more wisely it seems. Something I have not come across, what can be squeezed out of the stock turbos? This is usually where I draw the line on a DD, swapping turbos is getting just a bit too deep for me. Thanks for the input thus far, everyone on the board has been great!

Scott

SHOdded · November 09, 2015, 03:07:27 PM

As summarized in this post:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,808.msg7294.html#msg7294

1. First off, do tune + 3bar + Tstat
2. Add lowend grunt with downpipes
3. Add a methanol injection kit
4. If you so choose, and an intake like the MDesign, Airaid, LME - performance numbers are in the same vicinity. Also add catback at same time to take full advantage. Cutouts (manual or electronic) are an option as well.

That will take you to 400ish AWHP, and around 500ish AWTQ, no problems. Don't forget, putting in better suspension (H&R in your case) also helps improve performance.

After that, it's time to put in big turbos to get to the 500ish AWHP area.
Want more still? Engine work, and/or an aux fuel system upgrade for E85 is a very likely step. May not be streetable as a DD though.

EcoPowerParts · November 09, 2015, 03:40:34 PM

Also compressor wheel upgrades or full turbo upgrades work well also.

Depends on your budget.
Last thing is I make an aux fuel system to allow for E85 for big power on pump "gas"

BTW, I based my original fuel system off of the aux fuel setups that was pioneered on MS6 forums. I also owned an MS6 and was the 2nd big turbo upgrade in the US

Scott4957 · November 09, 2015, 05:22:44 PM

Very nice, thanks guys. The 3bar is what I left out, knew I missed something. Can't find info on the pumps if I go the E85 route, anyone have a link?

Thank you

Scott4957 · November 09, 2015, 08:33:27 PM

Quote from: EcoPowerParts on November 09, 2015, 03:40:34 PM
Also compressor wheel upgrades or full turbo upgrades work well also.
Depends on your budget.
Last thing is I make an aux fuel system to allow for E85 for big power on pump "gas"

BTW, I based my original fuel system off of the aux fuel setups that was pioneered on MS6 forums. I also owned an MS6 and was the 2nd big turbo upgrade in the US

Awesome, learned soooo much owning the DISI. Compressor wheel upgrades are something I would consider. Sounds like tuner and tune, 3bar, Tstat and downpipes is the way to start. I would think if you went the electronic cutout route and had them open at a particular PSI you could forgo the cat back as far as performance is concerned. Would love to see the look on someones face when those open on an MKS LOL. God knows if I would have got my a$$ handed to me by an MKS in my speed I would have been shocked.

SHOdded · November 09, 2015, 09:41:25 PM

I believe this is the current fuel upgrade offering:
http://www.ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=128

ZSHO · November 09, 2015, 09:53:44 PM

Quote from: SHOdded on November 09, 2015, 09:41:25 PM
I believe this is the current fuel upgrade offering:
http://www.ecopowerparts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=128

-MANU was it Jacob with a 14 SHO that had a fuel upgrade from Ecopowerparts and some xtra mods that got him in the high 11's. Z

SHOdded · November 09, 2015, 10:31:41 PM

Pretty sure it was Jacob, Z. All boltons per his sig ...

-Stock Block SHO - 588awhp - 650awtrq
-2014 SHO - NonPP
-E85 Aux Fuel System (PRO EFI)
-Unleashed Custom Tune (Torrie)
-Boost Activated Cutout
-ATP+2 Turbos
-Custom IC
-Catted Down Pipes
-Corsa Catback
-Custom Charge Pipes
-Air Raid CAI

Scott4957 · November 10, 2015, 10:02:15 AM

That's serious business. I would assume with an new in tank LPFP the HPFP could keep up for a while before losing PSI. That setup is clearly a step above what i would be looking at so I think meth may be the best route for me. I appreciate all the info! Working on selling what I parted out on the Mazda and likely will not start until spring on this project. That will give me some time to science everything out and get a feel for the car before I start. Right now I am looking at SCT x4 w/Unleashed 93 tune. Drop in filter, 3bar, Tstat and down pipes. Will likely burn my one tune on that setup and then when it is running good work on a meth kit.

AJP turbo · November 10, 2015, 12:39:14 PM

Wouldnt waste time on a fuel system upgrade unless u plan on running more than 16 psi at 2000 rpm or 22 psi in the top end.....its the high pressure pump thats the problem not the low pressure pump

The hpfp is driven from the camshaft so rpm = volume and pressure...i show well over 1500 psi at 18 psi in the top end...

Scott4957 · November 10, 2015, 02:55:58 PM

Quote from: ajpturbo on November 10, 2015, 12:39:14 PM
Wouldnt waste time on a fuel system upgrade unless u plan on running more than 16 psi at 2000 rpm or 22 psi in the top end.....its the high pressure pump thats the problem not the low pressure pump

The hpfp is driven from the camshaft so rpm = volume and pressure...i show well over 1500 psi at 18 psi in the top end...

No, not likely. If 400awhp and 500awtq is attainable without touching the fuel system that is more than enough for my DD. So the upgraded in tank pumps are likely used for aux fuel, not to push more through the HPFP. I got the impression that the HPFP could handle more E85, say 20-30% but the in tank pumps could not keep up. A nice balance that was often used in the DISI with a larger turbo was both a mix of E85 with meth injection. To be honest if I never have to mix a tank again I will be happy. A year of pumping 50/50 into the tank and only having a handful of places to get the fuel vs anywhere starts to drain you. When I would go on road trips I would have to go back to my 93 tune which was no fun at all

With the ecoboost on meth I can travel in comfort, style and have all my power with me!

EcoPowerParts · November 10, 2015, 03:05:23 PM

I've been talking to some friends in the GM world, they were able to massively increase the capabilities of the stock LT4 DI setup by pushing additional fuel on the low pressure side, they just pushed until they found the limit of the burst disk and then kept it below this. I was told about a 30% increase in fuel capacity of the DI system was had.
Nobody has ever tried that on our side from my understanding and we don't know what the limit of the burst disk is.

Scott4957 · November 10, 2015, 03:15:02 PM

God, i can only imagine! Its a beast already. Any word on what they are doing on the FI side, just a smaller pulley, with that much fuel I'm sure it will support a larger aftermarket blower. This is what I had first assumed was being talked about on the ecoboost. Not sure I would want to be the guinea pig for that project but it would be a killer setup. If we were able to simply change the LPFP and have the ability to do a 50/50 mix, or even 100% E up to a point it would make for a very inexpensive and simple route to some serious power. I'm not sure how the HPFP handles the E and if the "sticky black death" occurs like it does on the DISI over a 50% mix.