Turbo 'flutter' during low rpm / high gear acceleration...

[SHOdded]

Does thus issue manifest even when stock?  I have a hard time believivg it's the tune if a reputable tuner was used.  20 psi is well within range/duty cycle for an F150EB turbo, just a question of right time, right place.

I assume you have tried:
1.  Pulling the neg battery cable for 30 min, reconnecting then letting pcm relearn
2.  Checking and cleaning MAP sensors, throttle body with MAF/electronics cleaner
3.  Changing spark plugs if they have >20,000 miles on them, otherwise checking existing plugs fir fouling/wear/cracked insulator/etc
4.  Getting gas from a top tier/high volume gas station
5.  Checking trans/differential fluid for condition/fill level

Where are you located by the way?  Knowing that will help our members point you to a good dealer/service center.  Shouldn't cost more than 1/2 to 1 hr labor to check/update pcm (return to stock first of course).

[ShoBoat]

How to reset your KAM
http://youtu.be/hZAsoqmqhdM

So many great suggestions, I am not sure if I missed it but when this happens what is your KR reading? I am also leaning toward the truck is trying to protect its self. I am also assuming that the truck is fine at WOT from a stand still? Is it ok when you stand on it at say 55mph?



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[zzfb]

... Sorry if that doesn't help much

Actually, it's very helpful. In that particular dataset, I don't have the throttle angle... I do have 'load', but I think that's a calculated value.  And yes, that is a custom tune, but I've seen the exact same behavior on the canned SCT tunes... The only difference is that instead of fluttering between about 20psi - 15 psi, it flutters between 15 psi and 10 psi.  Very strange.

[ZSHO]

I was curious to see your modification list. Z

[zzfb]

Does thus issue manifest even when stock?

Yes, but much harder to reproduce. It just doesn't build much boost in that situation until you really put your foot into it and it downshifts a gear or two. The lousy response is one of the key reasons I felt a tune might help

I assume you have tried:
1.  Pulling the neg battery cable for 30 min, reconnecting then letting pcm relearn

My understanding is that a fresh SCT tune load reset the KAM. It certainly seems like that, as the first start after a load involves a much longer crank cycle before fire.

2.  Checking and cleaning MAP sensors, throttle body with MAF/electronics cleaner

Checked and cleaned MAP sensor in manifold, in 2011's I believe the map sensor near the airbox is only used for temperature. Ordered a new motorcraft MAP sensor as well, will install next week.

3.  Changing spark plugs if they have >20,000 miles on them, otherwise checking existing plugs fir fouling/wear/cracked insulator/etc

Yes, several spark plug changes. Happens even after fresh plugs, Motorcraft with the revised gap specification. New boots as well.

4.  Getting gas from a top tier/high volume gas station

Yup. Doesn't seem to be gas dependent at all. Premium fuel only.

5.  Checking trans/differential fluid for condition/fill level

No, haven't checked that.  I atually suspect I might have some transmission issues...

Where are you located by the way?  Knowing that will help our members point you to a good dealer/service center.  Shouldn't cost more than 1/2 to 1 hr labor to check/update pcm (return to stock first of course).

I'd love a service recomendation. I've been less than impressed with the service I've received. Attention to detail just seems *way* off.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Max negative KR all the way up.....(Blend torture test)

The 2013 behaved the exact same way....stock or tuned.

Hoping the dreaded "megaknock" doesn't pay a visit.

Can you elaborate on this a bit?  Max negative KR? Megaknock? 

Seems like it just may be a glitch in the matrix...

Then I need the red pill.

Well, my car is happy during that scenario so I get max negative KR or in other words it is advancing timing under those conditions.

But.....there is a phenomenon called megaknock that only seems to happen on DI cars.....the Mazda Speed community is all too familiar...this megaknock is very fast and extremely destructive. Ford has implemented strategies to combat this so either they are being cautious or they have attributed some engine failures to this. It typically happens in low rpm high boost conditions.

[zzfb]

Again... Thanks for the great replies... Folks here seem to be way more informed on this type of issue than the truck-specific forums.

How to reset your KAM...

Can anyone verify that a fresh SCT 'return to stock and load custom tune' resets the KAM? If not, I need to modify my test procedure.

...what is your KR reading?

My knock reading looked extremely screwy... No positive knock and massive negative knock, but still way retarded timing. I'll post another screen capture.

.I am also leaning toward the truck is trying to protect its self.

Sure seems like it, but it doesn't seem like it should have to... Why TF can't it just drop a gear without me putting my foot into it??  It would make much more sense then chopping boost and timing. Something like this: 
IF (bad s*** is detected) AND (rpm's are really low) AND (current gear is 4,5,6) THEN (downshift quickly and resample)

I am also assuming that the truck is fine at WOT from a stand still? Is it ok when you stand on it at say 55mph?

Yup, works great tuned and stock in both of those scenarios...

also...

I was curious to see your modification list.

Pretty much stock mechanically.. Slightly oversize tires (285/70-17, 32.08" diameter), AEM dry-flow air filter, boost gauge.

[ZSHO]

I apologize for so many questions,just trying to help you out,but when did you install the boost gauge?did you have these issues even before that. Z

[zzfb]

I apologize for so many questions,just trying to help you out,but when did you install the boost gauge?did you have these issues even before that. Z

I had the same thought. Even though the boost gauge has been on the truck for years, I did take it offline (removed the T, went back to 100% factory vacuum plumbing) with no change in behavior.

Here is a screen capture with the knock and advance readings.  Things start to look very screwy here to me, so much so that I wondered if I was getting correct data.



I'm no expert at reading these, but it looks to me like the timing is way retarded, and the kr is way negative which should be advancing the timing, but also super spikey.

I also have some questions on how dealer or factory strategy codes relate to custom tunes, but I'll start that on a new thread to not get things too off course here.

[ShoBoat]

Wow ok, -63 and 61? That looks really weird indeed. -4 and 7 should be the max. At least it is on my SHO. . There should also be a curve to it adding timing. I


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[zzfb]

Wow ok, -63 and 61? That looks really weird indeed. -4 and 7 should be the max.

Yup. Looks like screwy knock data for sure.  I'll try and get another dataset with throttle position and hopefully accurate knock and advance data as well.  I used this dataset originally as the boost/wastegate data lines showed exactly what I was feeling and seeing on the boost gauge.

Do you guys have a favorite parameter set for on-device SCT ecoboost data captures?  It seems like many of the parameters are redundant or have bad data...

[AJP turbo]

I think you need a good custom tune or another custom tune. Something is wrong with that log lol....I'll PM you and send you my email or maybe I can find your email and send you the config file that I log with. You should down load livelink Gen 2 if you haven't already. You may need that to use the config file I send you.


I could be wrong but the PID I log for knock says "knock sensor" not just knock like your pic shows. Sometimes there is  a PID related to knock that show a level of knock percentage or knock level. And I wonder if that's what yours is showing because I highly doubt you are pulling or adding 60 degrees. Or it could be knock ignition limit. At coasting a part throttle you very well could be at 60 of ignition advance so it's making me wonder.

[AJP turbo]

20 psi is well within range/duty cycle for an F150EB turbo, just a question of right time, right place.

You think so? Surely you are not talking about a stock tune? I don't know that trucks all that well. I figured they were similar turbos if not the same but maybe the trucks were cammed different along with a different intake manifold and maybe ran a few more pounds of boost to get the 420 torque rating at the crank.

He was up at around 23-24 psi  based on his first log pic. that's pretty aggressive for just a tune

[SHOnUup]

Throw some corn at it

Rich

[SHOdded]

F150s are not using the same turbos as the SHO.  Their turbos are larger, and tuners (yes, reputable ones) regularly put them into the 20+ range. "K03 turbochargers with 51mm OD FMW compressor wheels" as quoted from Full Race's page.  You can see their writeup here:
http://www.full-race.com/articles/what-is-ecoboost.html
http://www.borgwarner.com/en/News/PressReleases/BWNews/01%2005%2012%20BorgWarner%20Turbocharging%20Technologies%20Help%20Ford%20Ecoboost%20Engines.pdf