Deatschwerks Developing EcoBoost Injectors In Time For 2015 Mustang

[panther427]

That's exactly right.

[AJP turbo]

I'd have to see it....I would say the pump pressure is also related to the high fuel demand....What is the pump duty cycle?

When fuel demand is high the pressure will fall everywhere

So basically what you are saying is it is draining the rail?

Yes...I guess I could be wrong or even that higher ethanol is harder for the pump to flow the fluid but I do know that E85 is taxing to a fuel system and I've seen this before, however, in different applications.

A lot of people think they have an injector size problem when in reality they have a fuel pressure problem. Larger injectors can be a bandaid for an inadequate fuel pressure. i.e. larger injectors can flow more fuel at a given pulsewidth with lower pressure.

The new coyote mustangs no longer have a fuel rail pressure sensor. I added one and logged it externally though my X3. People think when they are maxing out the fuel system with forced induction they think they need bigger injectors, and sometimes they do but they also don't see how bad fuel pressure is dropping off under boost because it can't be logged in the new 5.0 mustangs. If fuel pressure could be maintained larger injectors might not be necessary.

With the high fuel pressure of direct injection operation it's even more critical I think to maintain it. And it's clear that there is a fuel pressure problem with the ecoboost platform when overboosting from stock. I've seen my rail pressure drop to 500 psi and it was commanding 2100. Now that was at 24 psi in the upper RPM's. But more ethanol would do the same thing at lower boost levels because you have to flow much more fuel...Not sure how much sense that makes...I babble

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'd have to see it....I would say the pump pressure is also related to the high fuel demand....What is the pump duty cycle?

When fuel demand is high the pressure will fall everywhere

So basically what you are saying is it is draining the rail?

Yes...I guess I could be wrong or even that higher ethanol is harder for the pump to flow the fluid but I do know that E85 is taxing to a fuel system and I've seen this before, however, in different applications.

A lot of people think they have an injector size problem when in reality they have a fuel pressure problem. Larger injectors can be a bandaid for an inadequate fuel pressure. i.e. larger injectors can flow more fuel at a given pulsewidth with lower pressure.

The new coyote mustangs no longer have a fuel rail pressure sensor. I added one and logged it externally though my X3. People think when they are maxing out the fuel system with forced induction they think they need bigger injectors, and sometimes they do but they also don't see how bad fuel pressure is dropping off under boost because it can't be logged in the new 5.0 mustangs. If fuel pressure could be maintained larger injectors might not be necessary.

With the high fuel pressure of direct injection operation it's even more critical I think to maintain it. And it's clear that there is a fuel pressure problem with the ecoboost platform when overboosting from stock. I've seen my rail pressure drop to 500 psi and it was commanding 2100. Now that was at 24 psi in the upper RPM's. But more ethanol would do the same thing at lower boost levels because you have to flow much more fuel...Not sure how much sense that makes...I babble

Babble away, the more input the better which i why i went on a research rampage when LME alluded to high sulfur being an issue with US fuels. That led to the viscosity, friction, and back pressure info... things I had never considered before.

I've never seen fuel pressure that low but its been low enough this winter to make the car very unhappy and led me to blend down to 15%. I will probably have to go down the WMI road before its all over, but I'm gonna look at everything else in the meantime.

[FoMoCoSHO]

I wonder if we have the HPD5, or the HPD5EVO with increased flow rate...

http://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/media/en/ubk_europe/db_application/downloads/pdf/antrieb/de_5/gs_datenblatt_hochdruckpumpe_hdp5_de.pdf

[AJP turbo]

That's pretty cool..Guess we'd have to look at the pump....If we have the NON evo pump it looks like it would be a 7% improvement going to 1.2 from 1.12 cc/R......Is that cc per revolution?

[FoMoCoSHO]

That's pretty cool..Guess we'd have to look at the pump....If we have the NON evo pump it looks like it would be a 7% improvement going to 1.2 from 1.12 cc/R......Is that cc per revolution?

I think it's cc per pump revolution....

[FoMoCoSHO]

Here's the motorsports version...

http://www.powerongroup.it/PDF/0261B11223.PDF

[IHeartGroceries]

Anybody had the OE injector flow tested?

You lose pressure (with ethanol or whatever) becasue your injector pulse width decreases with engine speed, your duty cycle increases, your injectors are staying open near continuously and so the high pressure pump struggles to compress fuel, as the restriction eases.

Unless I am mistaken, the rail pressure in these engines is dependent on engine speed, correct? The HPFP is cam driven. It could potentially be responsible for some pressure drops or lean conditions, high load, low in the RPM band.

So, as stated by aj, your injectors can potentially flow well enough, but your limitation is with the HPFP. If there is replacement availability for that, then you open up more headroom for fuel. Until you max the injectors out. O_o

[FoMoCoSHO]

Great explanation Iheart, thanks!

[SHOnUup]

Makes me think about the "lift knock" we all seem to experience.

Rich

[SRT82ECOBOOST]

The article posted in the OP is originally from January, 2014. Nobody that I know off has heard anything about any further development for this product.

[ZSHO]

The article posted in the OP is originally from January, 2014. Nobody that I know off has heard anything about any further development for this product.

I feel for you dude,if anything is bothering you or something is on your mind you can always send me a pm and we could talk.

[BlackJac]

The article posted in the OP is originally from January, 2014. Nobody that I know off has heard anything about any further development for this product.

I sent them an email and here's the reply.

Hey Michael,



Thank you for contacting us.  We are working on Ecoboost injectors.  There should be some updates soon as to when we will have them available.  Is it okay with you if I add you to the mailing list for these notifications?



Thank you

James



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[SRT82ECOBOOST]

It would be great if the injectors actually came to market. I just have my doubts from this company that has promised numerous products that never found their way into customers cars.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Anybody had the OE injector flow tested?

You lose pressure (with ethanol or whatever) becasue your injector pulse width decreases with engine speed, your duty cycle increases, your injectors are staying open near continuously and so the high pressure pump struggles to compress fuel, as the restriction eases.

Unless I am mistaken, the rail pressure in these engines is dependent on engine speed, correct? The HPFP is cam driven. It could potentially be responsible for some pressure drops or lean conditions, high load, low in the RPM band.

So, as stated by aj, your injectors can potentially flow well enough, but your limitation is with the HPFP. If there is replacement availability for that, then you open up more headroom for fuel. Until you max the injectors out. O_o

So looking at this, if we were get get a +25% injector that can run at a higher pulse width that closes like a normal injector, wouldn't that at least help restore rail pressure?

It may not be the ultimate fix but it would help wouldn't it?