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MDesign Intake review-bigmoneycloser

Started by bigmoneycloser, November 25, 2014, 08:01:57 PM

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WickedSHO

2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

SHOdded

#106
Reviewing this "classic" article (i.e., going back to the basics), I believe that better air flow is causing better atomization of the fuel, reducing particulate matter/soot emissions.  Since soot seems to primarily be a problem in the cold start to runup range, the air flow is improved AT LEAST through the part throttle range (since most people won't go WOT until engine is warmed up).

...As the fuel enters the air stream, it is pulled apart and broken into even smaller particles. This process can be likened to spraying an aerosol can into the atmosphere. The liquid in the can is pushed from the high pressure in the vessel to the lower pressure in the atmosphere, and is broken into what the consumer would identify as a fine spray. The proper term is atomized...

...The smaller the fuel droplets are, the greater the surface area for a given amount of discharged fuel (in pounds/hour) and, thus, there is more exposure to heat, so the phase change to a vapor becomes much more efficient...

...As the engine speed increases, the velocity through the intake manifold also goes higher, and more of the fuel is atomized than would be at low speeds...


Possibly better injectors with finer atomization patterns would be a solution, but unlikely to be an inexpensive one on a custom basis.

Not GDI related, but this Hot Rod article provides insight into fuel/air interaction.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

MDesign Performance

Yes this was my assumption as to why people have been seeing less soot on their tailpipes, a more complete and better combustion due to better air/fuel ratios which would create better atomization of the air/fuel mixture when compressed and ignited.

On a side note, for anyone looking for a MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake we currently have 12 remaining for pre-order, details here:

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=4211.msg65511#msg65511
2011 MKS EcoBoost: MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake; SP-534 Plugs; Power Stop C/S Rotors

sales@mdesignperformance.com
www.mdesignperformance.com
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IHeartGroceries

I don't see it. I don't see what a change so far up the intake tract, and upstream of the turbos and intercooler would have to do with fuel atomization, which is essentially taking place exclusively in the combustion chamber.
There's no flow metering anywhere near there. So airflow seems moot. The one thing it is effectively doing is reducing restriction and perhaps playing a role intake temps and adversely, air charge temps.

Perhaps it is better filtration which is responsible for the soot reduction?
2013 SHO PP

MDesign Performance

I could see it with better air fuel ratio due to less restriction, a more linear design that increases air speed and reduced intake air temperatures due to it only using ambient air. The faster the velocity the cooler the air, the cooler the air the denser it is. That helps when the air mixes with fuel in the combustion chamber, compresses and then ignites.

Hopefully with 14 kits out there some member with a dara logging rig can give us some results. We have a member performing a dyno in about 2 weeks.
2011 MKS EcoBoost: MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake; SP-534 Plugs; Power Stop C/S Rotors

sales@mdesignperformance.com
www.mdesignperformance.com
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WickedSHO

Hey Spartan27, you may have posted this already, but what kind of IAT temps have you seen with your intake? Close to Ambient or closer to air temp per Nav screen?
2014 SHO Ignot Silver. MDesign CF Intake, 3 BAR MAP, 160 T-Stat, LMS 93 OCT V8 tune.

MDesign Performance

I logged 2-3 degrees below ambient via SCT X4, there are pics floating around either in this thread or the original group buy thread.
2011 MKS EcoBoost: MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake; SP-534 Plugs; Power Stop C/S Rotors

sales@mdesignperformance.com
www.mdesignperformance.com
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91hybrid

How do you get temps below ambient? Help me understand that?

John.
2014 SHO -PP, Unleashed Tuned, 3bar, Devils Own 100% meth, PPE catted down pipes, 3rd cat delete, Magnaflow 2.5" exhaust, 170 deg, NGK 7's plugs, hot pipes - White Platinum 401a
418 whp - 513 wlb/ft
non meth 13.11@103.6 (knock limited)
Meth pass 11.991@114.28

SHOnUup

Quote from: 91hybrid on January 16, 2015, 07:18:13 PM
How do you get temps below ambient? Help me understand that?

John.
I've noticed that my torque pro display is about 5-10* colder than the cars temp display. Different sensors to read the temp from.

Rich

2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.

MDesign Performance

Quote from: 91hybrid on January 16, 2015, 07:18:13 PM
How do you get temps below ambient? Help me understand that?

John.

Vehicle in motion creates a true ram air affect increasing the intake air speed = denser/cooler air, I notice temps go down the faster I go. If I cruise on the highway I can maintain a 2 degree difference under ambient.
2011 MKS EcoBoost: MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake; SP-534 Plugs; Power Stop C/S Rotors

sales@mdesignperformance.com
www.mdesignperformance.com
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91hybrid

So your intake reduces atmospheric pressure causing a state change of the moisture in the air cooling lower than the airs actual temperature. Wait, that is counter intuitive as a pressure reduction would indicate inadequate flow and the moisture is aready a gas.

"Ram air" is a way to try to increase pressure in the intake not temperature. Temperature drops TO ambient is a side effect assuming sufficient flow and thermal differentials.

No intake will ever cause the air to be cooler than ambient (unless there is extra chemistry or phase changes involved). The air coming out front of a box fan is really the same temp as the air going into the back of the box fan. Even though it's velocity is exponentially increased.

Keep the selling points physics based and not random data..

I think your design is sweet looking, but I think you are over selling it based on hearsay. (Figured you'd like that terminology)

"Data is great, but if rather discuss facts"

John
2014 SHO -PP, Unleashed Tuned, 3bar, Devils Own 100% meth, PPE catted down pipes, 3rd cat delete, Magnaflow 2.5" exhaust, 170 deg, NGK 7's plugs, hot pipes - White Platinum 401a
418 whp - 513 wlb/ft
non meth 13.11@103.6 (knock limited)
Meth pass 11.991@114.28

MDesign Performance

Quote from: 91hybrid on January 17, 2015, 11:56:02 AM
So your intake reduces atmospheric pressure causing a state change of the moisture in the air cooling lower than the airs actual temperature. Wait, that is counter intuitive as a pressure reduction would indicate inadequate flow and the moisture is aready a gas.

"Ram air" is a way to try to increase pressure in the intake not temperature. Temperature drops TO ambient is a side effect assuming sufficient flow and thermal differentials.

No intake will ever cause the air to be cooler than ambient (unless there is extra chemistry or phase changes involved). The air coming out front of a box fan is really the same temp as the air going into the back of the box fan. Even though it's velocity is exponentially increased.

Keep the selling points physics based and not random data..

I think your design is sweet looking, but I think you are over selling it based on hearsay. (Figured you'd like that terminology)

"Data is great, but if rather discuss facts"

John

I have never stated that my intake reduces atmospheric pressure nor have I stated it caused a state change, these are terms you have introduced.

What I have said, as others have been reporting as well, is that we are seeing temperatures close to ambient or slightly below while in motion. Below is a run done this morning at a steady speed, near the end is WOT which is why the temperature drops to 23.

http://youtu.be/Co68js7GSQ0
2011 MKS EcoBoost: MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake; SP-534 Plugs; Power Stop C/S Rotors

sales@mdesignperformance.com
www.mdesignperformance.com
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J-Will

The 'outside temp' sensor and the intake temp sensor are two different instruments. This alone can be the cause of any variations. The position of the sensors is another, the intake one being protected and in a darker (assumingly cooler spot).   
2014 Factory Order SHO (non pp) Deep Impact Blue
Gearhead Automotive Performance Tune
3-bar
SP-542 plugs w/ GH gap

MDesign Performance

Quote from: J-Will on January 17, 2015, 04:09:58 PM
The 'outside temp' sensor and the intake temp sensor are two different instruments. This alone can be the cause of any variations. The position of the sensors is another, the intake one being protected and in a darker (assumingly cooler spot).

We have a member on the boards who is going to be doing a dyno run in a week or two, one thing I will ask to get data on from the dyno will be the IAT2 data as I believe that is the one after the intercooler. The member is going from a K&N to the MDesign so hopefully we will see the similar results to the AirRaid v. MDesign.
2011 MKS EcoBoost: MDesign Carbon Cold Air Intake; SP-534 Plugs; Power Stop C/S Rotors

sales@mdesignperformance.com
www.mdesignperformance.com
www.facebook.com/MDesignPerformance

SHOnUup

If it's possible to dyno it vs. the stock box, I'd suggest that. I think that would be the best one to compare to overall.

Rich

2011 Sterling Gray Metallic SHO non PP,
12.4211 @ 110.28 Livernois 3bar tune & CAI,
Added since...PPE catless Dpipes, Megan coilovers, Powergrid adjustable end links, and EBC slotted rotors and red stuff pads.
Tommy Designs grille with carbon fiber hydrographics, fender badges and fog bezels hydrodipped also, tinted windows, head & taillights, debadged trunk with all chrome plasti-dipped, black calipers, obdlink mx scantool running torque pro on 7" tablet.