• Welcome to Ecoboost Performance Forum. Please log in or sign up.
collapse

K&N modifications, can it be improved?

Started by ShoBoat, June 23, 2014, 06:13:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

panther427

the SB filters actually filter Better though.
2013 SHO

ShoBoat

Quote from: panther427 on June 25, 2014, 07:30:14 PM
the SB filters actually filter Better though.
I'm not disputing that point, they are a much better filter. Even the build is better than K&N. The K&N is a 6 layer and the S&B is an 8 layer filter. Hence why I really wanted to get one in my car, it looks like the surface area is just not enough when going to the S&B (Same size filter as K&N). Which leads me to deduce that the K&N filter might me just enough size. Keep in mind that these are tested on stock EBs and not tuned or modded. The stangs have added capacity built into the specs to ensure if you mod the car the filter will handle it. The HP gains we are seeing after tuning and mods might just be too much for the small filter to handle. It looks like something off a 4 cylinder. The S&B intakes on the stangs are huge in comparison. I believe that the Airiad has a larger filter than the K&N Typhoon by the looks of it. Most of the guys running serious mods seem to be running the Airaid. It would be interesting to find out how much additional flow is generated by say a tuned SHO with DPs and a cat back. Funny how when I started this test I was trying to help cold air and heat soak and found something else lol. S&B has agreed to send me a new replacement filter at no charge which will be 2 inches longer a 1 inch wider. It should give me about 25% more surface area. While I wait for the replacement filter to arrive I will continue with the original tests. If it works I will be sure to post the S&B part number.

In relation to the flow rate, is there an easy way to measure the airflow through the intake? There is no MAF on our cars, so that's out of the question. If we could get a reliable number then we could ensure that we have enough capacity in the filter.

2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

dalum

I'm really interested in your mods.  I had an airaid first and didn't really like the sound.  I decided to try the k&n because everyone said it sounded so much better but I thought they were nuts, they weren't.  I'm not doing any racing so the higher IAT's aren't a huge problem for me.  That said just knowing it could be better makes me want to seal it off from the engine compartment.

I think something that would help is understanding WHY the k&n sounds better vs stock or airaid.  Is it the metal?  Is the sound coming out of the fender area, from through the back of the hood?  I'm wondering what an airaid would sound like with a pipe out the side into the fender.
2013 Non-PP SHO

ShoBoat

I'm not sure why, but I assume it's because it's open to the fender and I'm sure the aluminum pipe also helps as you stated above. The mods so far have not impacted the sound so far :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

SRT82ECOBOOST

The previous owner of my Airraid just cut out a small section towards the driver's side quarter panel and the thing howls while under boost.
2013 SHO PP in White Platinum Metallic Tricoat, PPE Downpipes, Livernois Stage V8/3 Bar, Custom 2.5" Catback, 170 T-stat, Airaid CAI, H+R Springs and debadged
Boston Acoustics 2.1 Audio Upgrade

ShoBoat

I am definitely heading to Toronto Motorsports (Cayuga) tonight. It would awesome to see some other Ecoboosts there. I'll be doing 3 runs with each setup, break boosting at 2k rpm. I am really interested in the results. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

Larrylu

2010 Loaded, Non PP, Steel Blue Metallic, Livernois Stage 4+, Blacked out grill, Nexus 7 Tablet running Torque Pro

SHODYOU

The j pipe is what makes the k&n louder... resonance thru the bend in the pipe.
2011 SHO - Tux Blk/blk int, 402B, acc, nav, multicontour, 20s. LMS 4X MyCal, 3bar MAP, K&N Typhoon, 170* t-stat, SP534's @ 30, Stainless Works catless DPs, Corsa catback, H&R sports, 5/16 front-7/16 rear spacer, 255/35 Hankook V12s, Lamin-X/PlastiDip

2004 Mustang GT - Comp Orange, Boss block/3.80 stroker 327", Foxlake TFS', Hellion turbo, blah blah

ShoBoat

A little tease, I don't have time to do the write up right now. But let's just say this. It wasn't what I expected. More to come later today!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

SHODYOU

2011 SHO - Tux Blk/blk int, 402B, acc, nav, multicontour, 20s. LMS 4X MyCal, 3bar MAP, K&N Typhoon, 170* t-stat, SP534's @ 30, Stainless Works catless DPs, Corsa catback, H&R sports, 5/16 front-7/16 rear spacer, 255/35 Hankook V12s, Lamin-X/PlastiDip

2004 Mustang GT - Comp Orange, Boss block/3.80 stroker 327", Foxlake TFS', Hellion turbo, blah blah

ShoBoat

Okay so my findings from last night at the track. I have to admit I was a little surprised at the results. First I did 3 runs with my modified K&N typhoon with the K&N filter. DA was terrible and my launches were even worse. That said I launched the same every time. 2K only waiting 2 seconds of break boost for each run. Then I did one run with the typhoon and the S&B filter, no surprise here 3 tenths slower than the K&N filter. I only did one pass as I could immediately feel the difference between the 2. I then swapped out the typhoon for the stock box, I let the car cool down for 30 min and began the process again same as above 3 runs. Data logging was done by my laptop and FORScan. So on to the results. On average the stock intake ran slightly quicker then my modified K&N typhoon, but only slightly on all the runs. The kicker is that IAT1 (the one in the CAI and stock air box) was reading 12C (22F) higher then the Stock intake.

Here are the 2 runs with nearly identical 60 foot times.
             K&N            Stock with K&N panel
60          1.935          1.936
1/8         8.421          8.397
MPH        83.88          84.24
1/4          13.081        13.036
MPH         103.95        104.54

I know the 60s were terrible, I was however trying to launch the car exactly the same every time. And for the most part it seemed to have worked. Times were only slightly lower with the Stock box, trap was 1 to 2 mph higher with the stock box. When comparing the logs from the runs I can see that the car did pull slightly more timing with the K&N CAI. The interesting thing from the logs was comparing IAT1, IAT2 and CAC temps. Even though at the beginning of each run IAT1 was reading 22F higher in the K&N CAI by the 3 second mark IAT 2 and cac closed to 10F by 8 seconds the 2 runs were only separated by 2F difference for IAT2 and CAC temps from the 2 runs with the different intakes. I am going to dig a little deeper into the logs, I would really like to better understand the differences. But at least with the modifications might have made a difference, I also think that the location of the sensor on the K&N CAI might be reading a bit higher than actual (if that is possible). I hope this makes sense. I will try to do a CSV export of the 2 runs for comparison from the logs.   

Bottom line the stock box is still slightly better performing. And if you buy an S&B filter make sure its a lot bigger than the K&N its replacing.
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

BiGMaC

Excellent report ShoBoat!

Confirms again in a real world situation what I saw on the dyno.  One of the better engineered parts of the SHO is the OEM intake and filter.  As I have pointed out before.... On the dyno there is no delta between performance of OEM intake and filter vs removing the and only leaving the "saxophone" open. (Hood up, fan on engine both ways... Back to back.

Preliminarily I think the temps you report are due to the metal tubing on the K&N transferring heat more than the OEM plastic.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

ShoBoat

Thanks BiGMaC. Now that I have put this behind me, I wonder if there are any gains to be had on the rest of the cold side piping?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

BiGMaC

#28
Quote from: ShoBoat on June 28, 2014, 11:17:25 PM
Thanks BiGMaC. Now that I have put this behind me, I wonder if there are any gains to be had on the rest of the cold side

I believe there are.... I believe that Spartn27 has few design elements that might do it in his design.... He's busy, but we are designing a one- of based on his design.... I hope we can provide dyno data at least in the near future. 

I'd at least like to add the underwood eye candy without feeling like I had compromised the performance of the car.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

ShoBoat

Cool looking forward to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.