What have you done to your Ecoboosted vehicle today?

[AnotherGreenFusion]

Brian has 2 formulations.


How long do you have to wait to see results in the logs or do you just switch up right away? My OARs are not really improving but the timing is looking to be more solid. I need to get my knock PIDs turned on I think.

What is your OAR at?



Was seeing -0.93 at the track on wednesday even though the TS+ gauge was saying -0.96. Put my LMS v11 tune on after the track and I am at -0.67 (on torque was -1 on torque before that but it rounds up as we know) now but I assume its likely because the livernois tuner resets KAM when it loads the tune and ive only driven about 70 miles since.


I have a 100 octane tune waiting to go on, i just want to make sure it's safe to do so.

[FoMoCoSHO]

Brian has 2 formulations.


How long do you have to wait to see results in the logs or do you just switch up right away? My OARs are not really improving but the timing is looking to be more solid. I need to get my knock PIDs turned on I think.

What is your OAR at?



Was seeing -0.93 at the track on wednesday even though the TS+ gauge was saying -0.96. Put my LMS v11 tune on after the track and I am at -0.67 (on torque was -1 on torque before that but it rounds up as we know) now but I assume its likely because the livernois tuner resets KAM when it loads the tune and ive only driven about 70 miles since.


I have a 100 octane tune waiting to go on, i just want to make sure it's safe to do so.

I would trust SCT over Torque.

I would definitely use the TS to monitor knock with the 100 octane tune as Torque is just too slow to react.

I wouldn't even consider loading the 100 octane unless SCT says OAR is pegged and then I'd tread cautiously.

70 miles should be plenty to get OAR locked in, mine was locked in about 20 and it was a huge fuel change.

What fuel are you running?

[AnotherGreenFusion]

I would trust SCT over Torque.

I would definitely use the TS to monitor knock with the 100 octane tune as Torque is just too slow to react.

I wouldn't even consider loading the 100 octane unless SCT says OAR is pegged and then I'd tread cautiously.

70 miles should be plenty to get OAR locked in, mine was locked in about 20 and it was a huge fuel change.

What fuel are you running?

Gulf, shell or sunoco 93. Usually gulf or shell mainly. Mobile gives me (or was this summer) bad OARs consistently. This is the tank I filled up with after the track runs on wednesday. Gulf was in there before. All with AcesIV. could just be some funky gas.


I honestly have not noticed a massive difference with AcesIV in the fusion. The fiesta on the other hand it was a bit surprising how much of a difference I saw. I will burn this tank down and put some gulf or shell in with AcesIV in a couple days. Also going to put in the BND oil and trans fluid if I get time.

[Zalvern]

I would trust SCT over Torque.

I would definitely use the TS to monitor knock with the 100 octane tune as Torque is just too slow to react.

I wouldn't even consider loading the 100 octane unless SCT says OAR is pegged and then I'd tread cautiously.

70 miles should be plenty to get OAR locked in, mine was locked in about 20 and it was a huge fuel change.

What fuel are you running?

Gulf, shell or sunoco 93. Usually gulf or shell mainly. Mobile gives me (or was this summer) bad OARs consistently. This is the tank I filled up with after the track runs on wednesday. Gulf was in there before. All with AcesIV. could just be some funky gas.


I honestly have not noticed a massive difference with AcesIV in the fusion. The fiesta on the other hand it was a bit surprising how much of a difference I saw. I will burn this tank down and put some gulf or shell in with AcesIV in a couple days. Also going to put in the BND oil and trans fluid if I get time.

Just one question: Did you put in 3.25 oz of ACES IV to get started? When starting ACES IV, you want to put in the equivalent ratio equal to the entire contents of the gas tank. For the AWD Fusion it is 18 gallons. Upon starting ACES IV treatments, I put in a little extra over which is better than being under the mixing ratio.

As for the 100 Octane tune, I would ensure your OAR is dead on -1 and your knock sensor readings are very low when idling. In fact, the knock numbers should not even be jumping around at all when idling. Mine stay dead on 32 whenever I am idling, with a very sparingly occasional single digit increase or decrease. The effect is stronger the more fuel that is in the tank, with a full tank being the best.

I know people like to hit the strips and such with low fuel tanks, but I personally prefer the opposite and rather take the weight gain as full tanks have better benefits with only weight being the cost. It's better to keep the fuel tank filled full as much as possible. I always fill up at the halfway mark as a result. I also stay with one fuel station type (Shell for me).

[FoMoCoSHO]

@Zalvern- Sounds like you are monitoring raw sensor numbers which really don't tell you what is going on because they go through algorithms in the ECU which then are converted to knock retard (KR) which is the one you want to monitor.

I spent a while monitoring the raw numbers trying to figure out what they meant but there was no rhyme or reason to those numbers and what I saw KR wise. SHOdded finally came along and gave me a "scolding" and explained why I was just chasing my tail.

[AnotherGreenFusion]

Just one question: Did you put in 3.25 oz of ACES IV to get started? When starting ACES IV, you want to put in the equivalent ratio equal to the entire contents of the gas tank. For the AWD Fusion it is 18 gallons. Upon starting ACES IV treatments, I put in a little extra over which is better than being under the mixing ratio.

As for the 100 Octane tune, I would ensure your OAR is dead on -1 and your knock sensor readings are very low when idling. In fact, the knock numbers should not even be jumping around at all when idling. Mine stay dead on 32 whenever I am idling, with a very sparingly occasional single digit increase or decrease. The effect is stronger the more fuel that is in the tank, with a full tank being the best.

I know people like to hit the strips and such with low fuel tanks, but I personally prefer the opposite and rather take the weight gain as full tanks have better benefits with only weight being the cost. It's better to keep the fuel tank filled full as much as possible. I always fill up at the halfway mark as a result. I also stay with one fuel station type (Shell for me).

Spec sheet for the AWD fusion says 17.5 gallons so 2.916oz. I rounded up to 3oz when I started but did not realize I should put more than that in (dont recall brian mentioning it DOH!) I did however overfill the 1/2 oz portion of the bottle while filling so I likely have a bit more (I have not been super precise as I was thinking more would not hurt). I am about 1/2 way through the 38oz bottle between the fusions 3 tanks (2 real tanks IMO) and the fiesta. I also put 3oz in sthulins tank for him to try. I should have enough to get me to the end of the season if I deny more for the Fiesta. I just hope I can see numbers that make me feel comfortable with 100 octane.


My knock PIDs are disabled and always have been, I asked Unleashed to turn them on without luck, I will try again and ask livernois as well. For the time being I am watching global spark advance 1 and 2 as I do not have the per-cylinder PIDs the earlier years seem to have. Timing does seem a bit better but I still need to really pour into my logs. It does not help that temps dropped as they have in the last week, it makes it hard to tell if what i am seeing is boost season or the additive.

[SHOdded]

"scolding"

[AnotherGreenFusion]

"scolding"

dude, you scary ;-)

[SHOdded]

[Zalvern]

@Zalvern- Sounds like you are monitoring raw sensor numbers which really don't tell you what is going on because they go through algorithms in the ECU which then are converted to knock retard (KR) which is the one you want to monitor.

I spent a while monitoring the raw numbers trying to figure out what they meant but there was no rhyme or reason to those numbers and what I saw KR wise. SHOdded finally came along and gave me a "scolding" and explained why I was just chasing my tail.

Hm, about that actually...

As I've come to interpret the Knock Sensor numbers (1 and 2): The Sensor numbers in healthy performance reading should maintain an equal rate of change if running both readings simultaneously. I've come to interpret those graphs as a pre-step measure to avoiding any serious knock issues. Don't worry about the numbers individually, rather you just want to seem them maintaining harmony between each other in terms of numerical rate of change (easier to read in graph form as both graphs should have identical patterns in healthy reading/no knock retard).

Better octane quality results in keeping both numerical knock sensor readings equal in the rate they change. If Knock Retard (which I am also monitor) is likely to reveal a bad reading, the Knock Sensor graphs when ran together (running only one is useless) will show them straying far apart in graph form. The two sensor numbers don't necessary need to equal each other, but rather what rates they're increasing and decreasing is the primary focus if analyzing them.

So the goal is to see both graphs increasing and decreasing in symmetrical fashion, or as close to it as possible. Better octane quality seems to help achieve this.

Spec sheet for the AWD fusion says 17.5 gallons so 2.916oz. I rounded up to 3oz when I started but did not realize I should put more than that in (dont recall brian mentioning it DOH!) I did however overfill the 1/2 oz portion of the bottle while filling so I likely have a bit more (I have not been super precise as I was thinking more would not hurt). I am about 1/2 way through the 38oz bottle between the fusions 3 tanks (2 real tanks IMO) and the fiesta. I also put 3oz in sthulins tank for him to try. I should have enough to get me to the end of the season if I deny more for the Fiesta. I just hope I can see numbers that make me feel comfortable with 100 octane.


My knock PIDs are disabled and always have been, I asked Unleashed to turn them on without luck, I will try again and ask livernois as well. For the time being I am watching global spark advance 1 and 2 as I do not have the per-cylinder PIDs the earlier years seem to have. Timing does seem a bit better but I still need to really pour into my logs. It does not help that temps dropped as they have in the last week, it makes it hard to tell if what i am seeing is boost season or the additive.

Ah ok, then in regards to 17.5 gallon tank, I would just put in 3 oz at the very start, so that is fine. A little extra isn't going to hurt anything, but it doesn't bring any further benefit either (so its just wasting extra fluid).

I didn't touch the 100 Octane tune until after passing about 4 complete full tanks just to give it some good time and adjustment. Strange though...you say all your Knock PIDs are disabled? Even when using a program like FORScan? Or is this with your SCT tuning device? I know I had them on my 2014 Fusion, but of course can't say for the 2015 since you state previous years having something yours does not.

[SHOdded]

The PIDs could actually be a lack of from Ford, though I don't know why for sure.  For example, on the 2007-10 3.5L Edge, they have PIDs for spark duration.  On 2011+, they do not; the engine became Ti-VCT instead of simply VCT.  I would check the FSM in the PCED section (Reference Values) to see a quick rundown of what's available.  Sometimes you have to dig into the Pinpoint tests to discover other PIDs.

[AnotherGreenFusion]

I didn't touch the 100 Octane tune until after passing about 4 complete full tanks just to give it some good time and adjustment. Strange though...you say all your Knock PIDs are disabled? Even when using a program like FORScan? Or is this with your SCT tuning device? I know I had them on my 2014 Fusion, but of course can't say for the 2015 since you state previous years having something yours does not.

so I am likely good on the mix. I will wait a couple more tanks and hopefully get these PIDs turned on.


Yeah both my knock sensors read 0 on stock, unleashed and livernois tunes. AJP noticed this and enabled them for some of the testing we have been doing but I when I asked Torrie to do it he did not so I will bug him again.


It does not matter which scanner I use (Torque, TS+, TS+ and LiveLink or Forscan) if the PIDs are disabled I just see flat 0. I know they work since AJP was able to turn them on. I find it odd ford has them off stock but it is likely just a display the computer still uses the data internally.

[AJP turbo]

In the fusions and focus cars the knock sensors or knock sensor PID's are not turned off....Those cars utilize a setting that retards spark per cylinder as opposed to the "global" setting for the SHO.

On the SHO when knock is detected, whatever amount of spark is required to suppress the knock, it will apply that amount of knock retard to ALL cylinders.

On the Fusion and focus, it will only apply knock retard to the cylinder that reported the knock activity. Which is a more aggressive setting and I'm surprised Ford does this stock..

Synth, I turned the switch for global knock retard and that allows the knock sensor PID to report.

I want to look sometime at the PID's available in livelink but when you use the individual knock retard you need to log each cylinder knock activity.

You really don't want to turn the switch how I had it...It will result in lower spark that will make the car sluggish. At least I don't think...Your car had lower spark with my tune compared to your other tunes.

Hope that helps a little

[AnotherGreenFusion]

In the fusions and focus cars the knock sensors or knock sensor PID's are not turned off....Those cars utilize a setting that retards spark per cylinder as opposed to the "global" setting for the SHO.

On the SHO when knock is detected, whatever amount of spark is required to suppress the knock, it will apply that amount of knock retard to ALL cylinders.

On the Fusion and focus, it will only apply knock retard to the cylinder that reported the knock activity. Which is a more aggressive setting and I'm surprised Ford does this stock..

Synth, I turned the switch for global knock retard and that allows the knock sensor PID to report.

I want to look sometime at the PID's available in livelink but when you use the individual knock retard you need to log each cylinder knock activity.

You really don't want to turn the switch how I had it...It will result in lower spark that will make the car sluggish. At least I don't think...Your car had lower spark with my tune compared to your other tunes.

Hope that helps a little

I have seen this with the older Fusions with the cobb device, I have not been able to find individual cylinder advance or knock PIDs in Livelink or forscan for the '15. I am thinking of copying what my buddy is seeing on his cobb and seeing if it picks up anything.

[FoMoCoSHO]

@Zalvern- Sounds like you are monitoring raw sensor numbers which really don't tell you what is going on because they go through algorithms in the ECU which then are converted to knock retard (KR) which is the one you want to monitor.

I spent a while monitoring the raw numbers trying to figure out what they meant but there was no rhyme or reason to those numbers and what I saw KR wise. SHOdded finally came along and gave me a "scolding" and explained why I was just chasing my tail.

Hm, about that actually...

As I've come to interpret the Knock Sensor numbers (1 and 2): The Sensor numbers in healthy performance reading should maintain an equal rate of change if running both readings simultaneously. I've come to interpret those graphs as a pre-step measure to avoiding any serious knock issues. Don't worry about the numbers individually, rather you just want to seem them maintaining harmony between each other in terms of numerical rate of change (easier to read in graph form as both graphs should have identical patterns in healthy reading/no knock retard).

Better octane quality results in keeping both numerical knock sensor readings equal in the rate they change. If Knock Retard (which I am also monitor) is likely to reveal a bad reading, the Knock Sensor graphs when ran together (running only one is useless) will show them straying far apart in graph form. The two sensor numbers don't necessary need to equal each other, but rather what rates they're increasing and decreasing is the primary focus if analyzing them.

So the goal is to see both graphs increasing and decreasing in symmetrical fashion, or as close to it as possible. Better octane quality seems to help achieve this.

Spec sheet for the AWD fusion says 17.5 gallons so 2.916oz. I rounded up to 3oz when I started but did not realize I should put more than that in (dont recall brian mentioning it DOH!) I did however overfill the 1/2 oz portion of the bottle while filling so I likely have a bit more (I have not been super precise as I was thinking more would not hurt). I am about 1/2 way through the 38oz bottle between the fusions 3 tanks (2 real tanks IMO) and the fiesta. I also put 3oz in sthulins tank for him to try. I should have enough to get me to the end of the season if I deny more for the Fiesta. I just hope I can see numbers that make me feel comfortable with 100 octane.


My knock PIDs are disabled and always have been, I asked Unleashed to turn them on without luck, I will try again and ask livernois as well. For the time being I am watching global spark advance 1 and 2 as I do not have the per-cylinder PIDs the earlier years seem to have. Timing does seem a bit better but I still need to really pour into my logs. It does not help that temps dropped as they have in the last week, it makes it hard to tell if what i am seeing is boost season or the additive.

Ah ok, then in regards to 17.5 gallon tank, I would just put in 3 oz at the very start, so that is fine. A little extra isn't going to hurt anything, but it doesn't bring any further benefit either (so its just wasting extra fluid).

I didn't touch the 100 Octane tune until after passing about 4 complete full tanks just to give it some good time and adjustment. Strange though...you say all your Knock PIDs are disabled? Even when using a program like FORScan? Or is this with your SCT tuning device? I know I had them on my 2014 Fusion, but of course can't say for the 2015 since you state previous years having something yours does not.

Interesting.

I never thought to watch in graph form to look for differences in ramp up or decay rate.  Now I need to see if SCT has those pids. This would have been super helpful when I was testing top tier vs non. Ultimately the knock pid told me all I needed to know (top tier is worth every penny) but it would be cool to be able to correlate the finer detail of the raw reading to KR then be able to show the differences in the log graph.