Turn on / off pop with JBL MS8 and Sony

[dalum]

Nobody wants a Flex without turbos

[dalum]

Dalum and Lanson, really appreciate your help with this.

I will try out both of your suggestions and report back.

We pretty much suggested the same things.  The difference is he's in love with the MS8 and wants to give me his car  while I'm trying to rule out the MS8.  Its not looking good for it from what you already said (only turn off thump without sony amp powered on at all and both thumps with sony powered).  One of the only other things I could think besides turn on sequence would be a bad ground somewhere and one device is pulling a better ground through the audio interconnects (sony speakers out).

[Lanson]

Dalum and Lanson, really appreciate your help with this.

I will try out both of your suggestions and report back.

We pretty much suggested the same things.  The difference is he's in love with the MS8 and wants to give me his car  while I'm trying to rule out the MS8.  Its not looking good for it from what you already said (only turn off thump without sony amp powered on at all and both thumps with sony powered).  One of the only other things I could think besides turn on sequence would be a bad ground somewhere and one device is pulling a better ground through the audio interconnects (sony speakers out).

Its a lot more likely a wire is not doing what we're thinking it should be doing. 

[themetalmaster]

Big update. I fixed it. I had it wired 100% correct, but the fact that the amplifier is CANBUS controlled meant that I couldn't control it with any amount of relays or timer circuits. I read about a similar case where a gentleman with a Lexus IS350 had the exact same problem, I used his solution to fix it.

I used a Cache Audio COE8EQ as a line output converter to send low level signal to the MS8 instead of using the high level inputs. The conversion from high level inputs to low level keeps any power on/off pops from the Sony amp from being passed through to the MS8. So it works perfect now, sounds great too.

I just need to build a better mounting bracket for my gear. The good news is that I am free to upgrade the rest of the system whenever I get the time and motivation.

So the system is set up like this,  Nav Headunit --->Sony AMP ---> COE8EQ ---> MS8 ---> Speakers

Its possible that there was a simpler way to do this, but this is the solution that I got to work.

[Lanson]

I'm definitely happy you got it to work!  I think maybe a PAC TR4 turn-on circuit would the easier way, but no harm done here the other way, as long as the noise floor is not audibly worse.

Well done man! 

Now...we'll have to figure out why your car's setup is "special" and not in the wiring manual.  But maybe later, you got tunes at least.

[themetalmaster]

I'm definitely happy you got it to work!  I think maybe a PAC TR4 turn-on circuit would the easier way, but no harm done here the other way, as long as the noise floor is not audibly worse.

Well done man! 

Now...we'll have to figure out why your car's setup is "special" and not in the wiring manual.  But maybe later, you got tunes at least.

The TR 4 made the turn on pop not as bad. But the turn off pop was still there. The factory amp doesn't care if voltage is on the turn on lead once it's booted up, it uses a digital can signal to power down. I guess this is so Bluetooth and navigation voice will still work if you have the radio off.

I have the gains on the Cache box set to the minimum. When volume on the HU is at about 7/8 the way up the output voltage on the cache box is around 2.8, which is the maximum the MS8 can take on the line level input side. When configured as such the MS8 reports OK for signal level. It sounds the same as before to my ears, without the possibly speaker damaging pops.

It might be a dumb and expensive solution, but it worked for me.

[Lexingtonian]

I installed my first MS8 a couple days ago in my 2016 Explorer Sport. I ran into this issue for turn on/off as well. Hope it helps someone -

The Infamous MS8 Pop and how to solve it -

Several documented examples of it here (and there are many more):
Turn on / off pop with JBL MS8 and Sony
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/101151-ms-8-loud-pop.html
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/162123-jbl-ms8-turn-off-pop-does-not-do-while-muted.html

First, I'd like to thank DanMc85 for his excellent post below which was the ultimate solution:
Variable Line Level Preamp Outputs From ACM (Factory Radio) For Amplifier Upgrades

To quote from his post:

Amp Remote Turn On:  ACM (Harness B) - Violet/Red (Pin 18)    OR   ACM (Harness A) - Brown (Pin 7)
        Note these remote turn on wires are NOT 12 volts (approx 6 volts)... some amplifiers may require a 12 volt remote input and may need to convert this output with a third party device or relay. While you have the dash apart, you could also tap the accessory power wire at the key ignition harness for a guaranteed 12 volt wire for remote turn on. Also some sound processors, such as the JBL MS-8, support 4 Volts and higher as a remote turn on voltage so this is not an issue if you are using one.

UPDATE:
       Better remote turn on wire option for Push to Start Vehicles:
       Connector C3501 - Pin 5 - Brown/Yellow (22 Gauge) - 12 Volt w/ Delayed Accessory Feature
           - This wire is going into the 150 Watt AC/DC Power Inverter

I have bolded and enlarged the section relevant to the solution. First I used the ACM audio enable wire for remote trigger for the MS8 and that was what was causing the pop. The MS8 and subsequently all of my amps were staying on for minutes beyond the the car shutoff. Just before the internals of the APIM/ACM would go offline I'd get the pop then the AMP/MS8 would shutoff.  Moving the remote turn-on to the C3501 connector worked like a charm and shuts down the MS8 as soon as I power off the car or system. Much better and thank you DanMc85!

The Pop IS NOT coming from the MS8. It was coming from the ACM as it was shutting down. I'm assuming ACM doesn't do a soft shutoff and line level amp capacitors were draining causing the pop before going offline. (what it sounds like to me anyway)

Hope this helps someone. If you dont have an ACM or aren't coming from the Ford Factory System, replace ACM with "Head Unit" and it will be relevant to you. Essentially the head unit is shutting down releasing energy into the RCA's before the MS8 is turning off the Amps. This is the problem you need to solve to eliminate the MS8 Pop.

I have a build log for my 2016 Explorer Sport started here if interested -
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/build-logs-project-install-gallery/325353-2016-ford-explorer-sport-build-log.html