Turn on / off pop with JBL MS8 and Sony

[BiGMaC]

Does anyone know the RMS and peak power output to the 6x9 "subs" (LOL) in the rear deck of the SHO.  Also wondering about the cross frequency and low end Sony frequency produced.

I thought about looking into a couple of 10's or 12's with proper free air numbers and adding sound deadening to the trunk.  I know it's not the best... but might improve it significantly if I could

[Lanson]

Does anyone know the RMS and peak power output to the 6x9 "subs" (LOL) in the rear deck of the SHO.  Also wondering about the cross frequency and low end Sony frequency produced.

I thought about looking into a couple of 10's or 12's with proper free air numbers and adding sound deadening to the trunk.  I know it's not the best... but might improve it significantly if I could

I can help with this potentially.  We could devise a simple manifold under the 6x9 openings, utilizing IB-comptable subs.  With all IB setups, cone size is critical.  A 6x9 could manifold a 10" or maybe even a 12" sub, underneath.  I need tons of pics of the target area to see what's really going on though. 

There are a few useful 10" and 12" IB subs I'm thinking of, but immediately I'm drawn to think about the SLS shallow.  It isn't cheap though. 

Another viable option could be a small box placed behind what would be a free-air sub.  There is one single 6x9 subwoofer I can think of that would play well in a small box.  That's this http://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w69-1042j-6x9-subwoofer--264-837 .  It won't like an IB setup but a small box would go GREAT potentially. 

[themetalmaster]

I'm bringing my PM's with Lanson online just in case someone else needs help with this same issue.

My current set up is as follows. I have a 2011 SHO with factory navigation and Sony 12 speaker sound.

With the Sony system, the front speakers are actively crossed over. Meaning separate signals are sent to the door woofers and tweeters. I am using the the front woofers and front tweeters as inputs 1-4 on the MS8. As I understand, this will provide full range signal for the MS8 to process.

I have to retrieve signal after the Sony amp to maintain head unit volume control, navigation voice, Bluetooth and SYNC.

I am using the MS8 built in amplifier for now. Outputs 1-4 are wired to front speakers. Output 5 is center channel. Outputs 6 and 7 are rear door speakers. Rear center speaker and the sub's in the rear deck are disconnected. As it is configured the MS8 is controlling all the speakers. I am using the violet wire on pin 3 of the Sony amp for accessory power on, going to the remote in on the MS8.

I'm still working on an alternate location for accessory power.

[ShoBoat]

I did a stealth install a while back that I did a write up on EBOF. It keeps the trunk pretty much stock and sounds amazing, there is just enough room to pack a pair of 10's in the spare tire well with out impacting trunk space. here is the write up. I will do a separate hot to post on it's own.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2864.0/topicseen.html

[ShoBoat]

Does anyone know the RMS and peak power output to the 6x9 "subs" (LOL) in the rear deck of the SHO.  Also wondering about the cross frequency and low end Sony frequency produced.

I thought about looking into a couple of 10's or 12's with proper free air numbers and adding sound deadening to the trunk.  I know it's not the best... but might improve it significantly if I could

Not very much lol. With the system turned pretty much all the way up there is not much coming out of them at all. I had to put my hand on the baskets just to see if they were on when I was installing the Dynamat on the rear deck.

[ShoBoat]

JL used to make a drop in for the taurus. But it looks like it's discontinued. At over 1k just for the sub and enclosure I can't imagine why.
This is the only one I could still find.
http://www.gibbyselectronicsupermarket.ca/audio-stealthbox-sbftaurus13tw5-10up-ford-taurus-sbftaurus13tw5-p-8167.html


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[Lanson]

I just realized that this was an epic threadjack we just witnessed. 

Shoboat, maybe make a separate thread on this?  Awesome work though

[ShoBoat]

Sorry about the jack, I have made a separate post.

[ShoBoat]

There was a very specific wiring sequence in the install instructions. Which you probably already followed. Back in the day we used to use a time delay relay to trig amps when we had this issue. They are not cheap around $50.00 but you can set the delay if a proper trig cannot be found and cannot be corrected by any other method. Maybe as a last resort?


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[Lanson]

There was a very specific wiring sequence in the install instructions. Which you probably already followed. Back in the day we used to use a time delay relay to trig amps when we had this issue. They are not cheap around $50.00 but you can set the delay if a proper trig cannot be found and cannot be corrected by any other method. Maybe as a last resort?


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Another route would be to use the PAC TR-4, which is in itself a delay system, and powers off a signal generated, say, by a speaker wire or CAN bus signal.  Those are a whopping $10-15 bucks. 

But I do think the MS8's internal settings can do this...assuming it has been wired like I'm envisioning.

[ShoBoat]

Sweet let us know how you make out, I am thinking about pulling the trigger on the MS8 depending on how you make out.

[themetalmaster]

There was a very specific wiring sequence in the install instructions. Which you probably already followed. Back in the day we used to use a time delay relay to trig amps when we had this issue. They are not cheap around $50.00 but you can set the delay if a proper trig cannot be found and cannot be corrected by any other method. Maybe as a last resort?


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Another route would be to use the PAC TR-4, which is in itself a delay system, and powers off a signal generated, say, by a speaker wire or CAN bus signal.  Those are a whopping $10-15 bucks. 

But I do think the MS8's internal settings can do this...assuming it has been wired like I'm envisioning.

I'll keep that in mind as an option. I still get the pop with the delay set to 5 seconds. With the radio on, I can shut the car off and open the door (which kills the accessory power) and the speakers pop immediately, but the MS8 display stays on for another 5 seconds.

If it would help I will take some pictures of how I have it wired up. This is my first time working on a factory audio system as sophisticated as this, I may have made a rookie mistake.

The rain here in Atlanta killed my chance to take a look at the wiring this evening. Hopefully it will clear up by the morning.

Shoboat, I appreciate the courtesy of moving your thread. That's a pretty sick setup you have btw.

[ShoBoat]

Hey thanks, your setup is coming along nicely! Can't wait to see it done. Shoot some pics of the wiring as I tapped into mine already and I don't have the pop. I just can't seem to remember which wire I used for the trig. I'll look thorough my pics and see what I can find.


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[Lanson]

Let me cover how it is supposed to be wired, and you can compare your setup.

In general, the MS8 is the hub for EVERYTHING.  All inputs must go to it, and all outputs must come from it.  You need a remote turn on trigger (like the stock Sony subwoofer amp's turn on wire), but it doesn't need a full 12v if I remember what the manual said.  That needs to go to the Remote IN portion of the MS8.  All speaker wire inputs go to the MS8, and I chose all the channels and let the MS8 flatten and perfect the signal, which worked in my case.  Side note, the head unit should be switched out of surround mode if it has the option.  OK, so all inputs go to the MS8, and the outputs get redistributed back out to the proper speakers directly OR through amp(s).  You can NOT run the same channel (let's say channel 1) on both the built-in power AND an amp with an RCA at the same time.  You can also NOT do this with the inputs.  Each channel needs to be either on its own power (20W @ 4 ohm, 30W @ 2 ohm), or with an RCA cable to an amp. 

My concern is that you are powering the stock sub amp somehow.  That's a total no-go, because the MS8 can't properly feed a signal to the stock equipment for playback. 


If you don't have any amps right now, just use the stock MS8 power for everything, channel by channel.  It isn't a ton of power but it is enough to at least get you good sound, and you can make sure all is well with the system before adding complications. 


edit:  I got a chance to read your report on this, and it sounds right.  But apparently, that turn-on is wrong I think.  I'm digging through the OEM manual now for a 2011 w/ sony. 

While looking, be advised there is a rear parcel shelf speaker that is a CENTER channel for the rear, like a 6.1 DTS surround system could have.  My 2010 Sony-equipped Flex had similar, it actually used two 3.5" speakers in the back pillars, but they were wired mono parallel.  So it is similar.  That speaker is green/brown + and violet/brown -

So the pin you should be connected to I think is pin 1, a violet/red wire. 

Pin 3 is a SUBWOOFER wire!  Its the Right Rear (think, single sub but dual voice coil) + output.  THAT's IT!!!

[dalum]

I quickly read most of the posts  and you guys are making this too complicated.  If the MS8 is the only thing powering the speakers and the only thing you added...

From what Lanson said the MS8 has a turn on OUTPUT that can control other amps with a delay setting.  That wouldn't do anything to the MS8 itself and your problem is still the factory amp turning on after the MS8 is already on and supplying sound to the speakers.

You need to cut the wire going to the factory amp that you already tapped into for the MS8 turn on.  Cut it away from the connector so you have extra wire to work with (are room to work if you need to reconnect it later for selling the car).  So now the original wire you used will only be going to the MS8's turn-on input.  Now connect the MS8's turn-on output to the wire you cut going to your factory amp.  Now the delay setting in the MS8 will control how long the factory amp receives power after the MS8 does.

So the wire goes

car
|
|
|-> MS8 turn on input

x (cut)

|-> MS8 turn on output
|
|-> Factory amp