3mpg gain!?!?

[TopherSho]

After doing some research, I'm a bit skeptical about the intake service...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ&feature=youtu.be

The intake cleaning is a bit of a quandary for me. The deposits are baked on hard.  So the amount of dissolving *fluid* you'd need seems really high and that is just going to shorten the life of your cats since it will be done when running...  all those things will end up on your platinum...  so for that reason alone i am also very dubious of the chemical cleaning version of this.. it may get the soft easy to clean stuff but there will still be varnish there.

However the walnut blasting version of this i am all for.. But the dealership will charge an assload to pull the intake off each head to do it.   Google up bmw walnut shell to see the EXACT Same issues we have with out DI systems.. when VANOS 1st came out Beemers had a hideous time with pre-ignition issues because their ECU strategy was not as good as we have it now.

[Primalzer]

After doing some research, I'm a bit skeptical about the intake service...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ&feature=youtu.be

The intake cleaning is a bit of a quandary for me. The deposits are baked on hard.  So the amount of dissolving *fluid* you'd need seems really high and that is just going to shorten the life of your cats since it will be done when running...  all those things will end up on your platinum...  so for that reason alone i am also very dubious of the chemical cleaning version of this.. it may get the soft easy to clean stuff but there will still be varnish there.

However the walnut blasting version of this i am all for.. But the dealership will charge an assload to pull the intake off each head to do it.   Google up bmw walnut shell to see the EXACT Same issues we have with out DI systems.. when VANOS 1st came out Beemers had a hideous time with pre-ignition issues because their ECU strategy was not as good as we have it now.

I believe VW did the same thing with their early 2.0T engines. Their issues were much more pronounced, and had people with serious issues as early as 40K miles. Had a buddy with a CC that got their version of the intake cleaning, which to my understanding, was like the walnut shell blasting.

I'll have to drop a scope down into my intake one of these days and see if my issues are serious enough to warrant the cleaning. Not sure I'll ever go the intake chemical route. I'll keep doing my Techron with every oil change, and spend a day a week or so, and beat the piss out of it, to get the loose stuff out.

[TopherSho]

After doing some research, I'm a bit skeptical about the intake service...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0irwbwpuEbQ&feature=youtu.be

The intake cleaning is a bit of a quandary for me. The deposits are baked on hard.  So the amount of dissolving *fluid* you'd need seems really high and that is just going to shorten the life of your cats since it will be done when running...  all those things will end up on your platinum...  so for that reason alone i am also very dubious of the chemical cleaning version of this.. it may get the soft easy to clean stuff but there will still be varnish there.

However the walnut blasting version of this i am all for.. But the dealership will charge an assload to pull the intake off each head to do it.   Google up bmw walnut shell to see the EXACT Same issues we have with out DI systems.. when VANOS 1st came out Beemers had a hideous time with pre-ignition issues because their ECU strategy was not as good as we have it now.

I believe VW did the same thing with their early 2.0T engines. Their issues were much more pronounced, and had people with serious issues as early as 40K miles. Had a buddy with a CC that got their version of the intake cleaning, which to my understanding, was like the walnut shell blasting.

I'll have to drop a scope down into my intake one of these days and see if my issues are serious enough to warrant the cleaning. Not sure I'll ever go the intake chemical route. I'll keep doing my Techron with every oil change, and spend a day a week or so, and beat the piss out of it, to get the loose stuff out.

The problem will be unless you are injecting the techron or any cleaning agent into the intake upstream the backs of the valves will never get clean .  we run in cylinder injection and the gas cleaners only hit the cylinder walls and maybe the piston on the up-compression late spray stratified charge. 

[sholxgt]

Just additional food for thought...

I reset my trip/fuel calculation on every fill up and run the tank till near empty.  Have been doing it for 20,000 miles.  My actual fuel mileage is typically 1-1.2 mpg lower than what the onboard calculation shows.

If you haven't checked yours manually, I suggest doing so just to make sure it's accurate.  Mine is not.

My real average fuel economy is around 21mpg.  Best I have gotten on the highway using actual calculations is 26 mpg, but that required near flat ground and minimal use of throttle.  Overall, not that bad considering what the vehicle is, but also not that great compared to other modern cars.

[TopherSho]

One thing to consider is that out of boost these engines are TERRIBLE for the weight and gearing of vehicle we drive.  In traffic with moderation of speed (decrease and then increase) or even near idle we consume a lot more fuel in these gen-1 blocks than gen-2 and the 2.7.

[Primalzer]

The problem will be unless you are injecting the techron or any cleaning agent into the intake upstream the backs of the valves will never get clean .  we run in cylinder injection and the gas cleaners only hit the cylinder walls and maybe the piston on the up-compression late spray stratified charge.

The unfortunate problem. In another video, that same tech mentioned the use of catch cans (although he said they would void the warranty), use of the Techron (as you mentioned it also doesn't do much about the valves/runners, just the little bit of valve overlap that may occur), and using a high quality full synthetic oil, that will resist building up in the runners once it gets dumped back in through the PCV valve.

Sounds like really the only "safe" solutions are new heads or a thorough media cleaning of the runners. I wish that I could've got out in front of this issue, but it is, what it is.

[Primalzer]

One thing to consider is that out of boost these engines are TERRIBLE for the weight and gearing of vehicle we drive.  In traffic with moderation of speed (decrease and then increase) or even near idle we consume a lot more fuel in these gen-1 blocks than gen-2 and the 2.7.

The dual fueling is REALLY going to help with this issue. There were talks of a retrofit kit, but considering the new 3.5 shares it's architecture with the 2.7, and not the outgoing 3.5, I have a hard time believing something like that would bolt up.

[TopherSho]

Sorry bub.  It is solvable though.  and even more interestingly Ford may actually be developing a solution that *MIGHT* be backward compatible in the form of a throttle-body in injector.  it will be spendy in oem form though.

[Primalzer]

A new kit like that would be the nuts, and I think would solve a lot of issues. Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later.

[Primalzer]

I'll have to drop a scope down into my intake one of these days and see if my issues are serious enough to warrant the cleaning. Not sure I'll ever go the intake chemical route. I'll keep doing my Techron with every oil change, and spend a day a week or so, and beat the piss out of it, to get the loose stuff out.

Dropped a scope in last night, and saw the effects of a GTDI, with 100K miles, no meth, and presumably no cleaning.

The valve stems are caked, the runners are covered in oily carbon building, there is significant buildup on at least 1 of the intake valves. I took pictures, but they didn't turn out well. Tough to discern much. But watching while I was doing the scope told the story.

Now the question is, do I try and go after Ford for new heads? Is it worth it? Do I go to a BMW or VW dealer to see if they'd do a walnut shell service on mine? Ford has no cleaning or removal method for the carbon buildup, so I'm hesitant to take it to Ford.

The car runs fine when warm, idles steady usually, but surges when it's cold.

[TopherSho]

I had mine cleaned,  took the risk since i have the super warranty and if the cats blew they'd replace them. 

I do not have a scope so i have no idea the effectiveness.

[Primalzer]

I had mine cleaned,  took the risk since i have the super warranty and if the cats blew they'd replace them. 

I do not have a scope so i have no idea the effectiveness.

Chemical or walnut shell?

[metroplex]

You guys are getting incredible MPG numbers. I see a max of 23 mpg on pure highway driving with my 2014 SHO. That's with ~70 mph cruising.

[Hotrod Lincoln]

Running 1850 miles round trip from Vail, Colorado to Kansas City and back I got 28 mpg on first tank and 24 on the way back. Over the whole average it was 23 for all the tanks combined. I was pleasantly surprised. I did finally find some 93 octane in KC and ran 2 tank fulls through it. Seemed like it was a bit worse but mostly because of the short trips and enjoying the throttle response sea level. Amazing the difference some oxygen makes. Sorry a bit off topic.