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Testing Air Oil seperators

Started by ShoBoat, April 10, 2014, 10:59:52 PM

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Tuner Boost

No can. no matter what the internal design is will work unless it nears 1 qt of internal volume to allow the speed of the flow, or velocity to slow enough to prevent the Bernoulli effect from pulling much of the liquid through.

Here is a good read:

There is always debate about catchcans and effectiveness. We, for several years have had a challenge out to any brand catach-can to demonstrate there is no equal to the effectiveness of the RX system, and get plenty of flak from some on this. Our challenge has been, and continues to be as follows:

Install the RX can inline AFTER any other can, no matter the brand or model, especially the popular ones like Moroso, Billet prototypes (any of the dozens branded different but the same design) JLT, etc. and the RX can will catch as much or more, than any of these other "Placebo" cans.   All cans catch oil, that is not in debate. What is the concern is if your only trapping a small amount, and most of the oil most is still traveling right through any can and still being ingested into your intake air charge, your not correcting the issues related to oil ingestion. So, since we have done the tests ourselves on dozens of popular cans, it is hard for a consumer to see this as accurate and unbiased (the Elite E2 has turned out to be a close second and performs excellent) we have extended this challenge to anyone that will demonstrate they will do an unbiased test for 1000-2000 miles and document all in detail starting with both cleaned and oil free, and also at the end of the test are free to do it in reverse order (RX first, any can after) and I stress again, un-biased with no relationship with any of the vendors, post up the results in an accurate manor. We are looking for some here as well to do this on the CTS-V, and any other model/engine.

This is to wade through the hype and BS.....this is an open challenge ongoing.

Here is the most recent result:


I've had a UPR catch can on my 5.0 since last summer. It catches a lot, especially in the cold months. But I'll get right to my test. I added an RX can inline after my UPR can to see if the UPR was missing anything. And if it was allowing some to pass through, was it enough for the RX to catch anything? I don't drive a lot of miles regularly since my F150 is not a daily driver, so my results will take some time. This thread is to document how I set it up and what I catch over time.
I installed the RX can just as the directions explained, but I routed the hoses differently. I left my UPR can right where it's been for months, but rerouted one hose. I left the hose from the passenger side of the engine to the inlet of the UPR can. Then a new hose from UPR can outlet, routed to the inlet of the RX can. The RX outlet hose goes back to the engine. The PCV exhaust now flows from the engine, through the UPR, then through the RX, and finally back up to the engine intake.
Before installing everything for the test, I cleaned the UPR can thoroughly. The bottom of the can (inside) was covered with a thin layer of stiff sludge that I could only clean out using gas. I'm glad that was caught, along with the ounces of oil, water, etc, over the months I've been emptying it. But I was surprised at the outlet hose from the UPR can. It was wet with oil. Obviously some was getting through the can and back to my intake. I've never let the can get close to half full before emptying it. Nearly every time I've emptied it, there was 1/4" or less in the bottom. I'm noting this in case someone thinks I left the UPR get overfilled and it flowed through. Nevertheless, I started this test after cleaning everything for a fresh start.
I plan to leave this setup on for a thousand miles or so, and report my findings from each can.
1st picture: UPR can as it was originally installed.
2nd: CleanUPR can.
3rd: RX can installed. The hose in the top center of the can is the inlet. The outlet hose on the right has a check valve.
4th: Engine outlet to UPR inlet on left of can. UPR outlet on right side of can routed around (smaller hose) to the RX inlet. You can also see the other smaller hose coming back up from the RX can and ending at the intake on the engine.



And the 1000 mile result:

1000 Miles of Testing Results

- The Weather has been warmer lately. So the test began with sub freezing temperatures, and gradually increased through the 70's and topped off in the mid 80's yesterday. I couldn't have asked for a better range of temperatures for this test.

- What they caught was astounding to me. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the UPR might miss.
The UPR stayed on track with what it has been accumulating for many months. Each time I emptied them, it had about the same amount. It's contents were mostly oil which smelled like used oil. It caught 17cc total which is just under 3 1/2 tsp.
The RX had more than the UPR each time I emptied them. It's contents were an oil/fuel/water type mix that had a much stronger odor. Not a fuel smell, but a sharper chemical smell compared to the odor of used oil. It caught a total of 67cc which is just over 13 1/2 tsp.

- Final totals:
UPR - 17cc
RX - 67cc


So, who has a Moroso or other can installed that is willing to do a completely unbiased test...let us know.

ShoBoat

Hey I'm up for the test. Shoot me a pm and we can work something out.
I want to clear something first. I posted some advice on here that got a lot of buzz, I still trust their advice. That said Tracy makes a compelling argument. So I have been dabbling in my own car.
I trust my dealer for the most part, they also said don't modify your car that's bad. I didn't exactly listen to them...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

Tuner Boost

To understand the Moroso design, the top section has to be looked at closely:


The coalescing material they used is fine, but think carefully on how the vapors are routed through it.  What side is the inlet? And what side is the outlet?  Lets say the right is the inlet and the left is the outlet. The right side the oil and gunk laden vapors will travel into the media, and as the internal volume is so small, the 600 CFM of flow running through cannot slow, so most is pulled through due to the speed, or velocity of this flow.  So where does it go? Some of the larger drops will fall to the bottom and collect, but most will pull right into the left side (assuming that is the outlet).  Now some will also collect in the media...but as it saturates, most is pulled right out just as if you would put a wet wash cloth to your mouth ans uck. What happens, the water is sucked right out of the wash cloth. Now at 5---600 CFM of flow, that is many times the suction and volume that your able to duplicate with your mouth, so imagine there is very little of that oil able to remain in the media. When you shut the engine down, there will be some that then drops to the bottom and accumulates there from each sides media, but overall, it can only stop and trap a fraction of what is actually entering it so most is drawn right through. And then, if ere is more than say app. 1 oz collected over time, after that you can see it pulls some of the amount collected each time the engine is run and drawn out from the bottom as well.

This is hardly an isolated example. There are hundreds of cans to choose from out there, and all make bold claims.  But we purchase and test and dissect all we see, and 99% are not worth installing. They ALL catch enough for the end user to have the "Placebo effect" and THINK they are doing the job, but unless one actually tests and sees for themselves, most never have any idea.

panther427

Why do we need to t the intake plumbing?
2013 SHO

JimiJak

Quote from: panther427 on May 09, 2014, 09:44:33 PM
Why do we need to t the intake plumbing?

To get the maximum vacuum you need to tap into the intake. As close to the turbos as possible. Since we have two turbos, we have two intakes, so tapping into both of them doubles the vacuum to evacuate the gasses in the can.
With an otherwise stock setup, drilling the pipes is the only solution. Once you start modding, and freeing up other lines / barbs, your options increase, and you won't have to tap the pipes anymore.
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

JimiJak

If anyone wants to get a different brand catch can, or oil separator in my hands, I will gladly do the in-line tests and comparison.

While I am a big proponent of Tracy and his product, I have no affiliation with him or Rx, and will provide a scientific test. Like the rest of you, I am just concerned with finding whatever solution is best.

I already have some upcoming experiments, and another drain planned the with Rx system, so adding this would work out perfect.
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

panther427

Well good get that but the main line is same size as feed lines. From what I understand having two into one of same size really doesn't do anything.  If it was two 3/8 into a 1/2 inch line I would understand and wouldn't be question this.   I still need to relocate factory front value cover line to the air box :-(
2013 SHO

JimiJak

Quote from: panther427 on May 10, 2014, 12:49:11 AM
Well good get that but the main line is same size as feed lines. From what I understand having two into one of same size really doesn't do anything.  If it was two 3/8 into a 1/2 inch line I would understand and wouldn't be question this.   I still need to relocate factory front value cover line to the air box :-(

Sorry...I wasn't trying to over simplify it. I was just pointing out why the IM vac barb isn't enough vacuum from the can.

I agree with what you're saying in respect to the same size lines; but that's only true if you're using the line to it's maximum flow potential.
Example:
If a line will only flow a max of 10cfm, and you're pulling 10cfm into a space, 1, 2, or 50 evac lines pulling 10cfm/ea. won't make a difference.
But, take that same scenario and say you're only flowing 5cfm through the intake line, and evacuating 5cfm through each vac line. The addition of a second line would double your intake and overall flow.
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

ShoBoat

So it's been over a month and one trip to the track. I took the catch cans out last night. Still NADA! In either can. I have given them back to my friend. It's really weird. I expected something even a little. Just wanted to give you guys an update
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ShoBoat

Also, for those of you that have the RX are you still monitoring the oil in the CAC and intake piping? Just curious, I have noticed in mine that I have some in the rear pipe coming from the rear turbo. I have read that on some cars the turbo seals are a bit leaky by design. I am wondering if this is contributing to the issue.
These are the pipes I'm talking about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

ShoBoat

I wanted to let you guys know that I have come to an arrangement with Tracy at RX. I will be holding on to one if the Moroso cans. I will be installing the RX system in my car in line with the Moroso. This test should put to bed a few issues. With my own observations and Tracy's posts on the forum I am beginning to believe that we need these on our cars.  I will do a separate write up once I have the RX to do the side by side comparison. More to come!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2012 Pearl White CTS-V Stock
2016 Fusion Titanium 2.0 EB Stock
2013 SHO Black on Black (Gone) PP, Unleashed Custom Tune, 170 TStat, SP534 Plugs, 3 Bar, Airaid Intake, PPE catted downpipes, Corsa Cat-back, H&R Springs. Focal 165KR Front Stage,2 JL W6 10 with Focal 800.1. 12.62 @ 110 mph.

panther427

That's awesome. Thanks for the update. I an doin my own little test with just the catch can.  Different levels of installs and will end up with a Css to see what it does
2013 SHO

SHOdded

2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

JimiJak

One of the components to the monster can is on backorder... When that all wraps up, we'll see what effect can size has on all this too. ;)
"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." - Eleanor Roosevelt

2014 XSport Black Betty Build

SHOdded

Tempted to crack another lame joke :D but I'll spare the good folks this time!
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!