Simple question....unleashed or livernois for basic 93 tune

[crash712us]

Still not opinion I believe you should make from a supporting vendor. LMS has explain why they don't data log. Do we even know what SCT can log? Cause nobody else with other devices can monitor knock pids. If you truly believe LMS has inferior product why would you have them as vender on the forum?


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[black99lightning]

I agree whole heartily with bigmoneycloser. When I am asked I offer both venders. And let them choose who to go with. But I am not going to sit back any longer when comes to this discussion. I believe I have been fair on this debate. I am sick and tired in every opportunity that some people here feel need to smear LMS.


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I knew that the biased sentence would be taken incorrectly and that's why I removed. it. I am biased towards data logging any tune, let me be clear on that. Torrie, LMS etc. Not having an option or accepting datalogs from a tune that was for a vehicle using some gas other than the local area doesn't work here in HotZona. Our gas is horrible and our temps are off the charts.
I'm not bashing Livernois, I am bashing the thought that a "one tune fits all" scenario based off datalogging from a vehicle on a dyno doesn't work here in AZ.
We'll find out soon enough if I'm right or wrong.

One more thing, concerning the whole "vendor" thing, all of the money I'm making from my parts business is going right back into R&D for more custom parts for you guys. I'm not pulling money out of that business. It's all so I can make all these parts you guys are asking for, hopefully one day I'll be able to make some $$ and pull it out but right now it's feeding itself for cooler parts. Last round has been for hot pipes for the truck as well as downpipes. I'm also working on a fuel solution for the truck. It's all about making super cool parts for the cars. If I were able to start ever making some profits the only thing that would change for me is my wife would work from home for the parts company. I've been working my tail off to try and find a way for her to stay at home since she was diagnosed with Leukemia but I can't afford to pay for the families health care and lose her income both.

Just making sure you guys understand where I'm at with this whole thing.

And I'll probably be doing the same thing real soon, as I'll be going 3 bar, so I need to get with Torrie soon.  I'll do his 2 bar 93 tune vs. LMS stage 4+ 93.  Then I'll get him to tune me for a 3bar so we can pump more boost!?  If it blows, there's motors forsale on ebay for $2500.

[crash712us]

I am truly sorry about your wife's illness Mike. And don't doubt your heart is in the right place. I just believe this opinion is miss placed. Your still a stand up guy in my book. And truly hope do succeed in your plan. Here to you and taking care of your family!


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[black99lightning]

Still not opinion I believe you should make from a supporting vendor. LMS has explain why they don't data log. Do we even know what SCT can log? Cause nobody else with other devices can monitor knock pids. If you truly believe LMS has inferior product why would you have them as vender on the forum?


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My only issue with LMS is that from what I understand they won't tune my SHO with a 3bar since it has an SCT programmer.  That decision forces me to use Torrie.  I like LMS.  Both of my EB vehicles are tuned by them.  But I'm not ditching my SCT to pick up a mycal, which I feel is an inferior end user device. 

[mjhpadi]

You know, I just have a hard time believing anyone can doubt the tunes from Livernois...they have proven themselves to be safe and they have also proven to have great customer support, so to question their product seems wrong, especially from a vendor who has stayed an supported us and this forum.  Now I have no first hand experience from Torrie, so I really can't say anything about him or his products from first hand knowledge, but I've always tried to include both when discussing tuning. 

[EcoPowerParts]

Still not opinion I believe you should make from a supporting vendor. LMS has explain why they don't data log. Do we even know what SCT can log? Cause nobody else with other devices can monitor knock pids. If you truly believe LMS has inferior product why would you have them as vender on the forum?


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Yes, all SCT devices can data log
I didn't say they were inferior, I'm saying to data log everyone's tune for safety.
Here's a A to B comparison though, make your own decisions.

Company A:
Tuner is $399 with 3 custom tunes
Custom tunes with datalog feedback so it's built for your vehicle
Tuner has datalogging and software built in, nothing else to buy
Tuner is wifi and has a display to show PID's you can select
Available almost 24/7 for email updates of your tune
3 bar tune support
Any meth kit support
If you want to push the boundaries with E85, E85 mixing etc they will support it.
If you return to stock you can resell your tuner to someone else, they just need to buy a new custom tune.


Company B
Tuner is $599
Tune is based off of the companies tests on a dyno and built to their climate and gas quality, no data logs will be accepted for tune updates and no E85 or E content mixing support.
Tuner has no datalogging capabilities and no way to show PIDS.
Support it 8-5 M-F with turnaround times around 72 hours (just from what I've seen reported, I'm sure sometimes it's faster during business hours)
If you return to stock you can resell your tuner to someone else, they just need to buy a new custom tune.




Now if and hopefully when hptuners or Cobb comes out the game will be completely changed. It will no longer be what it is today, just like what happens every time Cobb enters the game for tuning. The new Cobb tuner for the Fusion just makes it so simple to tune. It gives feedback on what limiter you're hitting and their support is super knowledgeable and will help you tune your vehicle.
I am SO looking forward to either company coming in, as someone who's spent time with the SCT interface these things will make a major difference in what we can do!

[black99lightning]

I would agree.  In the end, I don't think you could go wrong with either. 

[bigmoneycloser]

I will be first customer to buy hot pipes for the Xsport.. No question asked..lol
I picture mine, powder coated graphite grey like my catch can with Blue rubber connectors..hint hint
They are bad ass!!!!


This site is great and the members are great. You have created a unique environment here..
I'm sure all your hard work and struggle will pay off and good future and health will come your way..
Stay positive.


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[panther427]

Honestly they are great companys.. I made my choice after talking with both company's.. After that i went with who i felt more comfortable with.

[2010SHOtime]

When I joined this site quickly I was sold on LMS but the great thing about this site is the plethora of information posted here. I waited before I ordered my tune and kept reading and was noticing posts by members here when they had a bad tune file from LMS and certain tunes that made cars run weird and needed new tune files. I'm sure there have been posts like that about Torrie but I hadn't come across them. I also liked the immediate response from Torrie regarding the tunes and literally waited 15 minutes from giving Torrie my strategy code to getting my tunes. I'm an extremely impatient person and that was important to me. I will never bash LMS because I think they have great products and do an amazing job with our cars.
I agree with Mike and believe every car is different and a one size doesn't fit all.

[BiGMaC]

Still not opinion I believe you should make from a supporting vendor. LMS has explain why they don't data log. Do we even know what SCT can log? Cause nobody else with other devices can monitor knock pids. If you truly believe LMS has inferior product why would you have them as vender on the forum?


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Yes, all SCT devices can data log
I didn't say they were inferior, I'm saying to data log everyone's tune for safety.
Here's a A to B comparison though, make your own decisions.

Company A:
Tuner is $399 with 3 custom tunes
Custom tunes with datalog feedback so it's built for your vehicle
Tuner has datalogging and software built in, nothing else to buy
Tuner is wifi and has a display to show PID's you can select
Available almost 24/7 for email updates of your tune
3 bar tune support
Any meth kit support
If you want to push the boundaries with E85, E85 mixing etc they will support it.
If you return to stock you can resell your tuner to someone else, they just need to buy a new custom tune.


Company B
Tuner is $599
Tune is based off of the companies tests on a dyno and built to their climate and gas quality, no data logs will be accepted for tune updates and no E85 or E content mixing support.
Tuner has no datalogging capabilities and no way to show PIDS.
Support it 8-5 M-F with turnaround times around 72 hours (just from what I've seen reported, I'm sure sometimes it's faster during business hours)
If you return to stock you can resell your tuner to someone else, they just need to buy a new custom tune.




Now if and hopefully when hptuners or Cobb comes out the game will be completely changed. It will no longer be what it is today, just like what happens every time Cobb enters the game for tuning. The new Cobb tuner for the Fusion just makes it so simple to tune. It gives feedback on what limiter you're hitting and their support is super knowledgeable and will help you tune your vehicle.
I am SO looking forward to either company coming in, as someone who's spent time with the SCT interface these things will make a major difference in what we can do!

No Dis to anyone.  If I didn't type it here don't interpret please.   I consider Mike a friend.
I have great respect for 4DR, Unleashed, and LMS. 

Mike did lay this part out spot on IMHO:... If you're up for fuel experiments and pushing the boundaries... Unleashed is likely the best choice I think... and with it goes time spent doing appropriate monitoring, if you want a quick car with improved performance and mostly just want to drive it... LMS may be the best for you... for you guys in the middle like me.... well I experiment to get the best of both worlds. 

Not too bad a comparison IMHO...... a couple of things I must post just because of my experience first hand.  I am going to finally tune tomorrow. (who designed the spark plug wells and location in the SHO?)  I have talked to Mike about the tune in person this week because I respect his opinion.... if you read the forum you know what we're planning.

As far as communication and support.... at least 4 folks including Dan, Andy, Brandon, and Anthony of LMS responded to me directly via text, email and voice call on weekends, evenings, and holidays during the last 3 months (and multiple times,..before I was a customer)... including their personal phones for months both before as well as since I purchased tuning to go on my used MyCal. So support is much better than implied.

As far as gas, and I'll admit it's not as bad as AZ is, but they do use 91 octane to tune for 91 octane at LMS... I asked Dan myself.   Climate is different.. same as DA changes at the strip... no doubt.... LMS had cw this winter and Unleashed must have had to rewrite for the same reasons this winter.

LMS does support the 3BAR MAP, DPs, and CAI... I set it up with Anthony on the phone at 5:15 MST  (8;15 EST) and then DL my tune.  After I can check it out (and hopefully dyno) I'll add the 3BAR component so I know what it does for me.... or doesn't.

Other than these points I'd echo everything you said... Not to debate, just to inform.  I also agree that a third player with expertise will change the game and make all of it better.




 

[Josephm]

My issue when this topic comes up, comes straight from this post (^^^).

The fact that you say LMS is safer, is not a fact. Think about it, How would a tune, that is a off the shelf, one for all, be SAFER, than one where the individual records his OWN perimeters and sends it off to a tuner. Its just not possible.

The word 'Safe' is IRRELEVANT when it comes to Livernois. I know of only two failures from tuned vehicles, and one CAME from livernois after they did the upgraded turbo (Search for that if you really want filled in; That was my deciding factor on picking a tuner.) and the other was a admitted user error (Meth).

If anything 4DR should of blown his vehicle up numerous times running lean when he was self tuning. This vehicle is very adaptive and impressive needless to say.

[goblues38]

Thanks for everyone's responses. I have been around car forums enough and should have known my topic would be a little heated. Truss me. I truly did not intend to stir the pot.

I was just not getting the answers I needed by going back through old posts. Now I have what I need.

I truly see both sides of the coin and can see negatives and appositives for both solutions.

That's being said.  I am in IT and hooking up to the obdII port to do some logging is a no brainer.  I am going to shoot each company a couple questions for my usage. Based on the responses I will finalize my choice.

Thanks again all. And thanks for giving me what I need without letting the thread go to hell.

Scott

[Livernois Motorsports]

Still not opinion I believe you should make from a supporting vendor. LMS has explain why they don't data log. Do we even know what SCT can log? Cause nobody else with other devices can monitor knock pids. If you truly believe LMS has inferior product why would you have them as vender on the forum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, all SCT devices can data log
I didn't say they were inferior, I'm saying to data log everyone's tune for safety.
Here's a A to B comparison though, make your own decisions.

Company A:
Tuner is $399 with 3 custom tunes
Custom tunes with datalog feedback so it's built for your vehicle
Tuner has datalogging and software built in, nothing else to buy
Tuner is wifi and has a display to show PID's you can select
Available almost 24/7 for email updates of your tune
3 bar tune support
Any meth kit support
If you want to push the boundaries with E85, E85 mixing etc they will support it.
If you return to stock you can resell your tuner to someone else, they just need to buy a new custom tune.


Company B
Tuner is $599
Tune is based off of the companies tests on a dyno and built to their climate and gas quality, no data logs will be accepted for tune updates and no E85 or E content mixing support.
Tuner has no datalogging capabilities and no way to show PIDS.
Support it 8-5 M-F with turnaround times around 72 hours (just from what I've seen reported, I'm sure sometimes it's faster during business hours)
If you return to stock you can resell your tuner to someone else, they just need to buy a new custom tune.




Now if and hopefully when hptuners or Cobb comes out the game will be completely changed. It will no longer be what it is today, just like what happens every time Cobb enters the game for tuning. The new Cobb tuner for the Fusion just makes it so simple to tune. It gives feedback on what limiter you're hitting and their support is super knowledgeable and will help you tune your vehicle.
I am SO looking forward to either company coming in, as someone who's spent time with the SCT interface these things will make a major difference in what we can do!

Unfortunately we are a little disappointed that we are having to come in and defend ourselves from the owner of a board we just agreed to sponsor.

There are many incorrect statements in your post, and many other posts that you have made. It is unfortunate, but we are here for the community.

As for our tuner, saying it is a "one size fits all" couldn't be further from the truth. Our tunes are custom, and our tuner comes with unlimited custom tuning for as long as you own the car and device.

We are fine with datalogging, but since everyone is datalogging the wrong parameters, it is useless and causes way more harm than good. You can't tune if you aren't looking at good data.

More incorrect information listed would be our hours of operation and our turn around time. While some tunes may take some time, we have had penty that were well under an hour. Look at what time it is right now, we were sending tunes out. No tuner on the planet can guarantee every tune will be delivered within x minutes.

Another piece of incorrect info is that our tunes are only based on our dyno here. We travel around the country to tune, in all types of environments, with all types of fuel. We have cars sent to us with fuel from different zones as well to have that advantage too.

One more data point is that while others out there are reliant on software companies to release support, fix corrupted code, map out parameters, we do that in house so we can control our own code. We played the game of being reliant on third party companies and were tired of waiting months, or years for support, or to fix incorrect mapping or missing tables.

[crash712us]

My issue when this topic comes up, comes straight from this post (^^^).

The fact that you say LMS is safer, is not a fact. Think about it, How would a tune, that is a off the shelf, one for all, be SAFER, than one where the individual records his OWN perimeters and sends it off to a tuner. Its just not possible.

The word 'Safe' is IRRELEVANT when it comes to Livernois. I know of only two failures from tuned vehicles, and one CAME from livernois after they did the upgraded turbo (Search for that if you really want filled in; That was my deciding factor on picking a tuner.) and the other was a admitted user error (Meth).

If anything 4DR should of blown his vehicle up numerous times running lean when he was self tuning. This vehicle is very adaptive and impressive needless to say.

What 2 failures? I can almost guarantee you don't have your facts straight. But if you want to spread rumors, I have them and there not pretty.


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