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Agh! Methanol Pump Failure......

Started by bpd1151, February 27, 2014, 11:46:47 AM

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bpd1151

I wanted to pass along some important info that I had the unfortunate circumstance of discovering first hand recently.....

I noticed liquid dripping onto my garage floor, coming from the area where my Methanol Pump is mounted.

Not sure if this was simply snow melting off, or an actual leak of some sorts, as the ambient temps in the garage, were warmer than outside temps. So I decided to crouch down further and investigate.

Sure as poop, I noticed a clear liquid dripping from the upper, center portion of the Methanol Pump.

All the connections on the inlet and outlet side, bone dry. So I was left scratching my head.

I did call up the mfg'er of the kit, and learned some interesting facts.

Apparently, these pumps do have a "duty cycle".

From what I was told, most pump users are reporting an average of 3yrs for their life cycle.

Some have experienced less (2yrs) others have reported as long as 5yrs.

The problem, as it was explained to me, was that by running Methanol through the pumps, that by it's mere chemical nature/compound/make up, that the Methanol eventually degrades the seals and O-rings on the pumps internals.

By me articulating exactly what I was seeing on my end, to the mfg'er, it sounds spot on for what has occurred in my instance.

I had two options available to me:

#1.) Remove failed pump, and send it in for rebuild (which would lead to down time)
#2.) Purchase a new pump entirely

I chose, based on what I learned, to purchase a new pump outright and have it shipped to me. My reasoning in purchasing a new pump, was simply due to the fact of now knowing of these "duty cycles" for the pumps.

I will install the new pump, and once the failed pump is removed, I will then ship it off for rebuild. By following this described course of action, I can then always have a pump "in reserve" for 3yrs from now (+/-) just sitting on the shelf collecting dust for immediate use.

So, just some important FYI for any current, or future Methanol users, that please understand, just like any other mechanical part, parts do fail over time, and with use.

This item is certainly no different, than in any other application. Exacerbated further by it's "performance" use and pushing parts to the upper ends of the designed limitations.

Applying here is the old adage "You gotta pay, to play".

Personally speaking, I'm not really to miffed about this. It is what it is. Use the pump, it's gonna wear out eventually.

I could say that I probably "use the pump" more often than the average Joe (and no, I'm not talking about a penile pump either for any of you sicko's out there just waiting to insert your jocularity here, haha)......

I make it a habit of not disclosing actual pricing between a vendor/customer, but I would say in a general sense, a new pump would run on average of around $200, with a rebuild being less than that. So for that type of general price point, coupled with an average 2-3 year "duty cycle" I chalk that up as mere peanuts for it's lifespan, and would say Methanol users should incorporate that into their maintenance plans when considering purchasing, and upgrading to this type of kit, no matter which vendor you purchase from.

Hope the disclosure and resulting info is of some help/importance.

SwampRat

#1

Yup  , it is what it is ... anything with moving parts has a duty cycle . Its simply a matter of normal ( maybe not so in you case ... LOL ) wear and tear .


For sure ...  ya gotta pay to play ! !
2013 SHO  ....  not mine anymore

2021 Edge ST

BiGMaC

#2
Great info and analysis Mike!   :thumb:  Thanks for posting your experience! Everyone, meth or not should read your post.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

futat2

sorry to here about your pump. Sounds like the company you used is very helpful witch is a bonus. My only question is,how week was your pump when you got your dyno tune done? Will a full operational pump change/effect anything? If it dose hopefully only in a positive way.
2013 SHO PP, Sparkly Black
bone stock (for now)
Got the windows tinted, 15% all around

SHOdded

Since we expect our in-tank fuel pumps to last for a LONG time (has anyone replaced one in their SHO or Flex yet?) and cost $300 to replace, maybe we can ask for methanol pumps that have a similar lifespan (better seals/O-rings).  Or plan to spend the $$ regularly as Mike said as a viable alternative.
2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

crash712us

Quote from: SHOdded on February 27, 2014, 04:53:59 PM
Since we expect our in-tank fuel pumps to last for a LONG time (has anyone replaced one in their SHO or Flex yet?) and cost $300 to replace, maybe we can ask for methanol pumps that have a similar lifespan (better seals/O-rings).  Or plan to spend the $$ regularly as Mike said as a viable alternative.
Pumps already come upgraded, and as mike said this is typical life span.

2011 tuxedo black non pp, LMS stage 5, Corsa cat back, LMS down pipes, Airaid, Alky control meth injection, Megan Racing coil overs, EBC rotor&pads, Mobsteel grill, 2013 trans cooler. 403whp 417wtq 12.25 @ 110

shoman04

2011 KONA BLU SHO,Livernois Tune,AIRAID CAI,DYNOMAX MUFFLEs,Newest member of the 12sec CLUB 12.669sec @ 107mph    2011 Ford Taurus SHO: 12.669 @ 105.050 MPH NEW FOR 2013LMS down-pipe,Magnaflow X-pipe,and Custom 2.5"exhaust pipe!! Meth and stage 5 next to be install!!!!!! METH DYNO TUNE today 405AWHP!!!WOW LMS track day 12.4209sec   :mike1:

Needmoreboost

Ouch.  Be very happy it did not s*** the bed when you were running WOT.  Ecobob can testify to the damage.  Glad to hear you caught it. 

All the more reason I personally will not run tunes that require meth injection. 
2014 Mustang GT/CS: white
Auto with custom Unleashed Tuning
Past honorable mentions: 13 SHO, 08 SRT4, 07 350Z, 03 Cobra, 03 Focus SVT, 00 GT Mustang, 91 LX Notch, etc.

bpd1151

Quote from: futat2 on February 27, 2014, 03:57:38 PMSorry to here about your pump. Sounds like the company you used is very helpful, which is a bonus.

My only question is, how weak was your pump when you got your dyno tune done?

Will a full operational pump change/effect anything? If it does, hopefully only in a positive way.

1st off, I want to thank all of the posts that have been placed thus far, regarding this topic.

It's nice to see that collectively, we each support each other, good times, or bad, and that only accurate information is presented for the benefit of all that come to this site, and extract info from it, as it pertains to modifying their own respective vehicles.

Great job to all in all sincerity! :bow:

Moving along, and specifically to answer the quoted quote.....

The vendor I spoke with, is Julio, over at AlkyControls. Super knowledgeable, and super friendly person.

Always has been a pleasure doing business with him, ALWAYS.

As far as any degradation of the pump during my latest and last dyno pulls conducted earlier this week, I don't believe there was any harmful result, or deterioration in the resulting dyno #'s I achieved.

I can say this with some degree of confidence due to the fact one can view the pulls I did of my own, from a roll, while on the expressway (check the thread where my photographer pal Jeff recorded, and posted the pulls on YouTube).

One can see the green LED light illuminated,  which indicates the pump is definitively spraying, as demanded upon, which was, and has always been "normal operation" since I installed it just a tick over 2 years ago.

I think in my instance, I just got incredibly flip'n lucky, that the pump failed when it did.

Odd coincidence, and unusually lucky timing.

I highly doubt there'll be any performance difference, or gains to be had, from installing a new pump..... but hey, I'm willing to entertain the concept it might! :dunno:

I'll report back accordingly, post install. Sound like a plan? :popcorn:

I think I just got incredibly lucky

Wild13SHO

Good to see you investigated the leak and you found the problem before it got worse.  I'd say this is one reason why I'm installing a gauge to monitor my the W/M flow rate.  If the pump starts to fail I expect to see a lower flow rate.

I could be mistaken, but with respect to the light showing that it's spraying. That only shows that power is going to the pump, it won't tell you if the pump is actually spraying anything. 

EcoBob's case wasn't a failed pump, a failed pump would yield different results.  Based on 4DRs info I believe the engine management system would detect the lean condition and shut things down before damage was done. 
Current:
2016 F150 2.7L Ecoboost.  Stock for Now
SOLD:
2013 SHO 400A, PP

crash712us

Quote from: Wild13SHO on February 27, 2014, 10:05:22 PM
Good to see you investigated the leak and you found the problem before it got worse.  I'd say this is one reason why I'm installing a gauge to monitor my the W/M flow rate.  If the pump starts to fail I expect to see a lower flow rate.

I could be mistaken, but with respect to the light showing that it's spraying. That only shows that power is going to the pump, it won't tell you if the pump is actually spraying anything. 

EcoBob's case wasn't a failed pump, a failed pump would yield different results.  Based on 4DRs info I believe the engine management system would detect the lean condition and shut things down before damage was done. 

the pumps light is turn on by pressure not power. So in the event if pump failed or no meth no light.

2011 tuxedo black non pp, LMS stage 5, Corsa cat back, LMS down pipes, Airaid, Alky control meth injection, Megan Racing coil overs, EBC rotor&pads, Mobsteel grill, 2013 trans cooler. 403whp 417wtq 12.25 @ 110

BBOX

Y'know, I was all gung-ho to get meth injection hooked up once this weather ridiculousness came to an end, now I'm taking a bit of a pause after reading this.

If I'm reading correctly, had the pump spit the bit while under circumstances that would have dictated methanol be spraying, you would have been facing a catastrophic engine failure? The car would not detect a lean condition and retard throttle accordingly, correct?

I guess what I'm really asking is, are there any failsafes in the event of a meth pump failure? Or is this like Global Thermonuclear War where the only way to "win" (not grenade the engine) is to not play?

bpd1151

I don't know the answer to that BBOX.

Perhaps another member, or any of our vendors, could chime in and shed light on that proposed scenario/inquiry.



Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


SHOdded

2007 Ford Edge SEL, Powerstop F/R Brake Kit, TXT LED 6000K Lo & Hi Beams, W16W LED Reverse Bulbs, 3BSpec 2.5w Map Lights, 5W Cree rear dome lights, 5W Cree cargo light, DTBL LED Taillights

If tuned:  Take note of the strategy code as you return to stock (including 3 bar MAP to 2 bar MAP) -> take car in & get it serviced -> check strategy code when you get car back -> have tuner update your tune if the strategy code has changed -> reload tune -> ENJOY!

Wild13SHO

Crash, that's good to know.  The two systems I've worked with were power to the pump = light on.


I bought the AEM gauge but declined to buy the fail-safe because, as far as I know/read, there is no way to incorporate the fail-safe into our cars ECM. 
Current:
2016 F150 2.7L Ecoboost.  Stock for Now
SOLD:
2013 SHO 400A, PP