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Interesting Video Warning on Ethanol Use

Started by FUSIONEB, January 20, 2014, 07:47:33 PM

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FUSIONEB

Long time lurker, but for some reason, I can't view posts any longer without having created an account.

I found this YouTube video interesting on warnings of using Ethanol in today's vehicles

http://youtu.be/ceW9Nc1hVHU

DJE624


EcoPowerParts

#2
Do some research on that, I don't believe it will do damage to your motor for a minute.
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BiGMaC

Welcome Aboard FusionEB!!
Glad to have you here!
:WELCOME:

Interesting video that should provoke thought as we mod... and as far as the fuel separating, I'd simply add a recirculating fuel pump system to keep it mixed..  It is interesting that the warning (unsure on the warranty voiding) is for pre'12 vehicles.

I lean toward what 4DR said.  First, Ethanol is NOT corrosive... Geez, we drink it...(sometimes too much, LOL).  It is drying, which can be a double edged sword... It get the water out of your fuel system, but it is possible that manufacturers are using cheap seals and gaskets that fail if dried.  The ethanol does not have the lubricity of gasoline, but neither are like diesel and we do have pretty sophisticated oiling systems these days..

As far as detonation, which can ruin engines.... I'd like to see the autos and claims.  The ECM in them must be pretty bad... It's supposed to sense the conditions (regardless of fuel) and prevent damage at least in the Ford EB engines, and will shut you down to prevent damage. There are a number of threads here with that discussion.. usually WOT at high rpm near the top of second gear in the SHO.... unrelated to fuel type though.

4DR ran E85 in a high WHP (600+) 2011 Flex 3.5EB.. got more power from it, raced the car (hard use), and had no problems.

In Arizona they add 10% ethanol to all grades of gasoline in the winter anyway... it's right on the pump and you don't have a choice.   In the last 37 years I have driven Ford in Arizona without a hitch...trucks, cars, crossovers

I'll certainly keep watching the issue, but I'm far from convinced.

I believe other factors are at play in the mix.. and one is surely the desire to shirk warranty responsibilities.

Sorry about the rant.. And again, WELCOME!

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

bpd1151

Welcome aboard EBPF! :hi: :newbie:

Enjoy all of the info posted here thus far!

Lots of great members here, as well as vendors with outstanding products to help you enjoy your EB power plant!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


crash712us

Here what I know and deals with methanol from RC planes and cars. Engines that are not properly ran with after run oils. Will rust and corrode, with 2 strokes your crank and bearings that will rust. But more expensive 4 strokes the valve train will totally rust out and have seen some bad examples of. While don't fully understand why ethanol is label as a corrosive. But this is my personal experience with small engines that run on as much as 80-90% methanol.


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2011 tuxedo black non pp, LMS stage 5, Corsa cat back, LMS down pipes, Airaid, Alky control meth injection, Megan Racing coil overs, EBC rotor&pads, Mobsteel grill, 2013 trans cooler. 403whp 417wtq 12.25 @ 110

Josephm

Lobbying at its finest... Good job oil industry.
12' Flex EB
Unleashed X4
3rd Cat delete

BiGMaC

#7
Quote from: crash712us on January 20, 2014, 10:45:34 PM
Here what I know and deals with methanol from RC planes and cars. Engines that are not properly ran with after run oils. Will rust and corrode, with 2 strokes your crank and bearings that will rust. But more expensive 4 strokes the valve train will totally rust out and have seen some bad examples of. While don't fully understand why ethanol is label as a corrosive. But this is my personal experience with small engines that run on as much as 80-90% methanol.

So true!  I believe the alcohol (ethanol or methanol) are good enough organic solvents to wash all the lubrication out.... hence the after-oil use.  The corrosion likely just happens because of the 21% oxygen in the air... Oxygen is corrosive (oxidation = rust), especially bare ferrous metal.... and over time even aluminum.

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

mjhpadi

Chris, I was under the understanding that RC engines ran on a nitro/methanol blend being mostly nitromethane.  It sure smells like nitro when they are running, although admittedly I am not really knowledgable on the mixture of the RC fuel.  Also I find it kinda funny that all weekend on Barrett-Jackson they were running Sta-Bil ads pushing their new 360 formula which is supposed to give off vapors that help prevent corrosion in the fuel tanks/systems of cars that use fuel containing methanol....
2010 Candy Red SHO, Livernois Stage 4 Tune, Airaid CAI, Tinted Headlamps & Tails, LED Interior Lighting, LED Running Lights, LED Puddle and License Plate Lamps, LED DRL's, Window Tint, Rear Window Spoiler, V3 Triton Switchback Running Lights, Colgan Bra, Ford Racing Gauges (oil pressure, oil temperature, boost/vacuum)
Replaced by 2020 Hertiage Edition GT-350

BiGMaC

#9
Quote from: mjhpadi on January 20, 2014, 11:04:57 PM
Chris, I was under the understanding that RC engines ran on a nitro/methanol blend being mostly nitromethane.  It sure smells like nitro when they are running, although admittedly I am not really knowledgable on the mixture of the RC fuel.  Also I find it kinda funny that all weekend on Barrett-Jackson they were running Sta-Bil ads pushing their new 360 formula which is supposed to give off vapors that help prevent corrosion in the fuel tanks/systems of cars that use fuel containing methanol....

The vapors displace oxygen and bind moisture (so no rust)..... beyond stabilizing the gas so it doesn't turn to/leave shellac. Those same vapors prevent evaporation.  When the more volatile hydrocarbons can easily evaporate (mix with air by turning to gaseous state) the gum is what is left..... all can be good, but I'm surprised that Sta-Bil is just now using the first point above as marketing. 
Learned all this junk while operating a gas plant for Houston Natural Gas for 4 years getting through college.... a trillion cubic feet at 800psi/day processed.  We dissolved it in lean oil and cycled 750,000 gal/10 min from +500 to -150 degrees... couldn't have water or oxygen in there!

BTW.. my youngest son was at BJ.. He drove some nice cars pretty hard... got yelled at for drifting the C7!  LOL

•2013 Taurus SHO nonPP - All Ford factory options, 3BAR MAP, LMS v8 tune (mods for 3BAR, DPs, and T-stat), Paint & plastic correction, CQuart finest all exterior surfaces, limo black window tint,VLED Triton switchbacks, Daytime BrightLites switchback DRLs, full interior and exterior LED conversion, Lamin-X charcoal blackout tail lights and reflectors, PPE catted and coated downpipes, EBPP coated hotpipes with BoVs VTA, MDesign CAI
•2013 F250 CC Lariat 6.7EB Diesel -stock

crash712us

Quote from: mjhpadi on January 20, 2014, 11:04:57 PM
Chris, I was under the understanding that RC engines ran on a nitro/methanol blend being mostly nitromethane.  It sure smells like nitro when they are running, although admittedly I am not really knowledgable on the mixture of the RC fuel.  Also I find it kinda funny that all weekend on Barrett-Jackson they were running Sta-Bil ads pushing their new 360 formula which is supposed to give off vapors that help prevent corrosion in the fuel tanks/systems of cars that use fuel containing methanol....
The little cox's engine run on 85% nitro, the larger run about 15% nitro the rest is methanol and oil.

2011 tuxedo black non pp, LMS stage 5, Corsa cat back, LMS down pipes, Airaid, Alky control meth injection, Megan Racing coil overs, EBC rotor&pads, Mobsteel grill, 2013 trans cooler. 403whp 417wtq 12.25 @ 110

Joewee3.5

I put 5gal of e85 in every other tank.  Mixed with 93.  Logs look great and it adds a little timing.  Truck feels peppier. 
2011 f150 platinum Ecoboost 4x4- LMS catless pipes, LMS/unleashed tunes, AFe stg1 intake, 4" corsa exhaust
1/4- 13.52@99
2014 Ram 2500 4x4 6.7 Laramie Limited

IHeartGroceries

Adding 5 gallons of E85 to 30 gallons of E10 nets you approximately 7.25 gallons of ETOH content, or nearly 21%. Seems like too much to me. It is over oxygenated at that point, with any tune which is designed to operate with E10.

Using ETOH as an octane enhancement is a proven method. However, I think the sweet spot should be around 15% content, as opposed to 20 or more.

Tossing in a gallon or so of E85 into super E10 worked very well for staving off KR for many members of the Mazdaspeed community, and also kept engine parameters from veering out of whack.

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2013 SHO PP

Needmoreboost

Quote from: IHeartGroceries on February 05, 2014, 03:44:47 PM
Adding 5 gallons of E85 to 30 gallons of E10 nets you approximately 7.25 gallons of ETOH content, or nearly 21%. Seems like too much to me. It is over oxygenated at that point, with any tune which is designed to operate with E10.

Using ETOH as an octane enhancement is a proven method. However, I think the sweet spot should be around 15% content, as opposed to 20 or more.

Tossing in a gallon or so of E85 into super E10 worked very well for staving off KR for many members of the Mazdaspeed community, and also kept engine parameters from veering out of whack.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Agreed.  I used 3 gallons of E85 to make 360/370 on stock turbo, intercooler, and 02 housing on my SRT4 Caliber.  It works when tuned corrrectly.
2014 Mustang GT/CS: white
Auto with custom Unleashed Tuning
Past honorable mentions: 13 SHO, 08 SRT4, 07 350Z, 03 Cobra, 03 Focus SVT, 00 GT Mustang, 91 LX Notch, etc.

FoMoCoSHO

Ford approves e-15 in all 2013 including ecoboost and hybrid

http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/9195/gm-ford-announce-e15-compatibility-with-new-models

I started at 1 gallon e-85 and am now up to 5. The car has made more peak power with every increase (at least torque says so)

I had no change in mileage till I went from 4 to 5, then I dropped from the usual 20 ish mpg to 17.

Still no issue with FRP, hitting 2600-2700 @ WOT.

LTFT on both banks was up near 20% so I backed it down.