LMS or Unleashed Meth Kits

[FracaSHO]

Why is there such a huge difference in price between the two?  I'm on a budget, so if I went with meth, I'd probably go with unleashed. I'm an amateur do it yourselfer at best, but my Dad is very knowledgeable on cars, old ones at least. Would I be able to install either myself?


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[BiGMaC]

Dunno 'bout the price difference, although I hear where your coming from..

Here's a How to install Unleashed's Meth kit by Ecobob
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=533.0
You'll have to decide whether you think you can do it... check the websites, Install should be similar generally. This article link posted originally by 4DR is a good start: http://www.mysubie.com/faq?id=39

Here's links to some info/tech articles that may help you decide
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=51.0

If you have a tune you'll want to mod it to be safe and get max from the meth kit. 
Most say that, after a tune,meth is the biggest performance bang for the buck.

[bpd1151]

Check the "How-To's" section..... as I did a very thorough write up on my install.

You can do it on your own, but if you're feeling uncomfortable about the whole concept of DIY, I have a guy in Plainfield, IL. who's very reputable and his pricing (for install only) is tough to beat.

I can even give him a hand to help defray your install costs further.

As far as the price points between the two, there are differences in products.

The pumps themselves are essentially the same, however LMS tosses in the progressive control box, which IMO is an important aspect of the system, as it will meter your meth usage, and supply it as demanded.

Unleashed's system from what I understand is simply on/off.

I would yield to others opinions as to whether or not rolling the with 100% Meth set up (through LMS) is better (or not) in comparison to the Unleashed offering of a user defined mixed set up (like 50/50 mix).

I personally don't care to d!ck around with mixing anything, or figuring it out.

I go through quite a bit of it (Meth) as others will attest to, however that's cuz I'm usually laying into it fairly often, as I enjoy actually driving my car in a very "spirited" fashion.

So for me, dumping in straight Meth is easiest.

[EcoBrick Bob]

I spent over 1/2 hr answering this question and for some reason my post doesn't exist. 

To summarize... Livernois charges an up-charge over Alky Control, who makes all the components of their kit. 

If you want the same components as the Alky Control kit, but will need to fabricate your own mounting bracket that Livernois provides, you can get the SHO kit from Devil's Own and add a #10 nozzle and braided lines. This will cost at least $300. less. They are a good place to look for parts and add-ons as everything can be found priced individually as well as by kit pricing.

If you want a simple reliable system... consider Torrie's... Simpler can often be equal or better.  Complexity can cause failure.  Yes lines can break and system's can lose prime, but controllers can also fail. No system is 100% failsafe. 

I was the first person and the test person for Torrie's kit.  It only has an on-off boost activated switch that you can adjust for the boost level you want it to turn on.  It uses a Shurflo pump as do ALL of the major Methanol Spray systems available.  ALL these pumps are 100%  Methanol compatible.  However only Livernois and Alky Control recommend 100% methanol use.  All the rest recommend stopping at a 50/50 mix due to liability concerns as higher concentrations of Methanol are flammable and burn with an invisible flame.

As for the difference in an on-off system vs one that controls the voltage to the pump based on boost, theon-off system tends to have an A/F ratio that can be on the rich side up to 4,000 RPM... But, under WOT runs you are only below that in first.  Might make a small effect on HP & Torque.  However, a good tune will far offset this.

The most important thing is to ALWAYS spray the same percentage of Methanol you are tuned for.  You all know what happened to me when I ran out of methanol and sprayed 100% Denatured Alcohol and then purposely lugged the engine in 2nd.

[QuickSilver]

^Not sure which 'all' knows what happened, it was either before my time here or I missed it. Did it get expensive?

[shoman04]

Why is there such a huge difference in price between the two?  I'm on a budget, so if I went with meth, I'd probably go with unleashed. I'm an amateur do it yourselfer at best, but my Dad is very knowledgeable on cars, old ones at least. Would I be able to install either myself?


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FracaSHO No matter which (bpd vs ebb) COMANY SPOKESMAN (LMS vs UNL) you go with, both are great.LOL  bpd and ebb are my 1st/BEST friends when I 1ST came to the 3 forum we are members of. SO I TRUST THEM BOTH (EVEN IF THEY ARE ALWAY CONPETING WITH EACH OTHER!)LOL I just DIY a LMS meth kit in AUG. I am not a car mechanic but a electrician did it all by myself. You can do it with the forum's help NO-MATTER which sys you go with.

[EcoBrick Bob]

^Not sure which 'all' knows what happened, it was either before my time here or I missed it. Did it get expensive?

I have been up front and repeatedly explained that I hydro locked my engine when I ran out of methanol and switched to 100% denatured alcohol. I was attempting to get logs of what was happening to A/F at lower RPM levels.  It is impossible to hold our tranny in  first & 2nd, even with the paddles.  It will shift up, so when it shifted up to 3rd I flipped it back into second, which meant I was spraying at less than 2K.  Everything seemed fine, but when I got off the interstate and came to an idle at a stoplight, I got an engine light an a misfire.  It went away above 2,500 rpm, but came back after a 10 or more second idle.  I thought it was an injector issue.  I even did a compression check and found the #1 cyl could only hold 30 lbs when turning over and not starting.  Still, it seemed that a DI injector that was stuck open could cause this as they inject directly into the cylinder head. After all, engine seemed to run just as strong when above 2,500 RPM.  I scoped the pistons and all looked good from the top.  Completely de-modded everything except mufflers and H & R's and cosmetic items - headed to my selling dealer.  Two days later they started accusing me of tuning and told me I had 3 damaged pistons and one slightly bent rod.  Also told me ECM had been flashed approximately 100 times and the last flash had occurred 12 key turns before they pulled all the ECM data and sent it to Ford.  Asked me to come in and see damage..  Also informed me Ford wouldn't pay for it, and that it needed a new (re-mfg) long block kit.  We ultimately negotiated a $4,100. price on long block and total with fluids alignment,6% tax etc. cost $8,400.
That happened in early April 2012 at 35,000 mi.  I now have 68,000 mi on vehicle and it runs better than ever.  Ford dealer mechanic was really good.. personal car - a Volvo Turbo!  The middle cyl on firewall side had the slightly bent rod.  That cyl and the pass side rear cyl had the ringland fractures ( chunks of missing metal between the two sets of rings).  The #6 cyl had ringland cracks but all metal was still there.

A couple weeks before this happened, my Flex was dyno'd on a Dynojet Linksys II ( identical to Livernois dyno and one of about 12 at that time) at Naples Motorsports.  I showed 369 hp and 409 lbs Torque.  My numbers were achieved at relatively high RPM's.  Dyno operator was the one who said the numbers would have been considerably higher if my A/F hadn't been quite rich below 4,000.  Above that he said the Torrie tunes couldn't have been better. 

The reality of all this was that I caused this trying to fix something that really wasn't an issue on the street or at the strip. 

Summarizing, my vehicle was running rich up to around 4K, and then perfect.  That's better than running lean, which if one's controller would accidentally cause that, could be more serious than my slightly rich conditions. What I did by lugging my vehicle purposely would never happen in normal driving.  Anytime you add devices that increase power, you are making tuning more complex, and adding risks. 

If Torrie and I had started logging my denatured alcohol spraying and increased various tuning components till  we got the power levels near max, this would never have happened.  It was completely my fault.

[EcoBrick Bob]

BPD & I are friends, and actually stayed together at the 2012 SHO Convention in St. Cloud, MN.  I was one of the first to get my EB vehicle tuned.  At that time, Torrie was  one of the few tuning it.  Livernois had not released their tunes at that time.  I have nothing but praise for all the efforts Torrie has given me in helping my Flex to be the first in the 12's.  I have nothing against Livernois, and have their EB tunes, as well as having purchased mods for my G8 from them.  If I lived relatively close to Detroit, I probably would have worked with them, and had them Dyno Tune my Flex. Torrie has worked with me via logging and e-mail tuning from those logs.  He responds in minutes or hours, almost all of the time. While not quite as prompt, Rick, when he was at Livernois, always responded the same or next business day. 

Both tuners, Dan and Torrie are very good, and are worthy of your business.  As to what your goals are, you should consider all options, including other methanol kit suppliers and other tuners such as Lund, if you have a previous relationship with them, and feel they can help you in your quest for speed...  I learned long ago, that when it came to my G8(s), that I couldn't be the fastest, nor did I want to be.

Only one person can have the fastest SHO..

May ALL of you be that person... sometime!!!!!

[bpd1151]

Yep, it's true.

Me & EBB were roomies at the 2012 Nat'l SHO Convention.

I'm not sure who was more plastered over the other?

I did fight off EBB though when he suggested we spoon and/or cuddle together. Yikes!

EBB is correct. Both companies have been around since the beginning with the Eco platform.

Both offer great products and outstanding support.

The deciding factor for me personally, was the fact LMS was within reasonable driving distance from my home, & even less, from my Dad's cottage near Sturgis, MI.

I like getting actual face time with the people who've done work on my car, or whose product I've purchased for my car.

Just one of 'my' things.

Obtaining face time is so incredibly valuable & is such a rewarding experience that just can't be achieved over the phone, or the internet.

I've fostered a great relationship with LMS since, and have even forged new friendships as a result (Darreli, crash712us, FirstSHO, steve123456, and others).

Plus, let's not forget, I'm too technologically inept to datalog (or just lazy). Hahaha.

So bottom line, I consider myself to be a spokesmen for ALL the vendors that wholeheartedly support the Eco platform in their own, unique, perspective ways.




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[DJE624]

So bottom line, I consider myself to be a spokesmen for ALL the vendors that wholeheartedly support the Eco platform in their own, unique, perspective ways.

Same here.  I know sometimes I may come across a little biased but, I really do appreciate ALL of our vendors and hope they are successful with the Ecoboost crowd. 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Regarding our cuddling... BPD told me before we got there that I was in charge of getting him back home and in bed each night.  I musta scared him... cause he never got sloshed, nor did I.   Was great fun!!!!  If anything happened... it was because of all the Meth BPD stored in our room.  (5 or 10 gal pail of 100% methanol!!!) Definitely clears your sinuses.. (just before it explodes on fire!!!)

[bpd1151]

Bwahahaha!

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[BiGMaC]

 
 

[Mikesb]

I have got to have a meth kit now. After reading all the posts it sounds like the next most positive thing for performance and longevity of my car

Bpd1151's set up looks like the bomb, and is exactly what I want. Seems a little more intensive then just getting a kit from LMS and putting it in myself on the weekend
Braided hoses (I am familiar with a/n fittings)
Dash gauges w/lights ?
3 bar sensor (needs additional wires) ?

I'm pretty competent with a wrench - but I don't know about all that. I definitely want the results as good as they can be. I live in Portland Or, any thoughts on who could do it or help me /or/ do you think I could do it myself with your guys's help through the forum

[QuickSilver]

@ EBB hopefully those of us that follow where you have led in modding the EB platform can learn from your mistake. Lord knows that I've ventilated a half dozen or so blocks by making decisions that *seemed* reasonable at the time.... Meth is definatly on my mod list, I want to optimize the breathing into,thru, and out of the motor first tho and the more I leRn about the meth option before I get there the better!